across the UK online and On Da the
mother of all talk shows with George
Galloway on talk radio we'll get you
talking listener comrades of the World
Unite he's a weapon of mass discussion
and he's back on your radio get ready
for a revolutionary rumble on your radio
with the original George of the
political jungle Galloway celebrate the
mother of all talk shows with George gy
Comey have a go if you think you're hard
enough
on the radio station that gives power to
the people talk radio we'll get you
talking 0844 499 1000 that's the number
to call write it down because I don't
want to have to keep saying it every 5
minutes
0844
4499 1,000 to join the great debate the
University of the airwaves although I
never went to University and I've got
strong views about grammar schools as
you're about to find out and so is the
hapless sap who's going to turn up to
debate it with me it's the mother of all
talk shows call me have a go if you
think you're hard enough get it the
mother of all talk shows with George
Galloway on talk radio we'll get you
talking I'm not even going to mention
Wally even though we've yet again tried
to get him and yet again he's un
available because he is dead in the
water that is surely the conclusion that
anyone who watched the special edition
of question time last night anybody who
votes for Owen Smith I think that's his
name his proper name Owen Smith is not
fit to challenge Jeremy Corbin for the
labor leadership and I don't believe the
any amount of rigging and my goodness
has there been plenty of that is going
to deprive Corbin of a substantial
victory in just a few weeks time but do
keep voting if you've been lucky enough
to survive Purge one and Purge too in
any case I've got more important things
to talk about grammar schools constitute
class war and Theresa May's answer to
the problems of
2016 it turns out is a return to the
1950s the
1950s when sheep were separated from
goats at the age of 11 by the device of
an 11 plus examination fail it and you
were destined for a teenage and father
lifetime of drudgery and and repetition
pass it and you could become one of the
elite able to go on to the
aforementioned universities we won't
stand for it you know Mrs May neither
parents nor teachers nor many of your
own honorable colleagues two of whom two
already senior conservative politicians
both were
have explicitly rejected your idea labor
is opposed Liberals are opposed
nationalists are opposed anybody with
any sense is opposed to going back to
the future look the idea that the
existing divisions and inequalities in
our society will be healed or bettered
by adding to them at the age of
11 surely doesn't bear any kind of
examination and I don't believe that it
will pass the House of Commons I don't
believe it has any chance of passing the
House of Lords and I'm questioning her
sanity she's got a waer thin majority in
Parliament and she has launched a policy
that even Mrs Thatcher bulked at so is
this an effort to be Maggie May or is it
some kind of device to distract divert
uh the attention of her own
parliamentary party away from their
potentially fatal Schism still over the
question of brexit uh we'll be
discussing in the course of the show
with Chris McGovern chairman of the
campaign for real education who I
understand is a supporter of grammar
schools and uh I look forward to that I
hope he does as well we'll be talking
about the anniversary of the blitz 58
nights consecutive London was burning 8
months one week and 3 days the rest of
the country as well as London was
burning almost 200,000 people were
either killed or wounded in the Blitz
very few people ever talk about that
even remember that almost 200,000 whole
streets were cleared
factories workshops Railway
infrastructure even Parliament
itself was partially destroyed in that
Blitz and yet we never surrendered we
never surrendered because we are or were
a great people who were determined to
stand up to Hitler fascism even when we
were left doing so alone when European
governments like the government in the
Netherlands threw up their hands in
surrender when the French surrendered
when the Americans were watching the war
on
usel and when the Soviet Union having
tried and tried and tried again to put
together a coalition of Western
countries with themselves to thwart
hitlerism when all that had been
rebuffed the Soviet Union made a
separate deal with Hitler and sat out
the early part of the war therefore
during that Blitz we were entirely alone
and inside the cabinet room and inside
the Parliament and inside the pal
and inside the city and inside some of
the country's then great newspapers
there were people many people who were
willing Hitler to win there were others
who assumed that there was no other
outcome possible but one man one man in
the British political
firmament said We Will Never Surrender
he told his cabinet colleagues that not
until he and they lay on the floor of
the cabinet room choking in their own
blood would we succumb to the hordes the
barbaric hordes of Hitler fascism and he
meant it by the way now Hitler
committed great crimes and great sins
and is correctly damned for all history
for for what he did Churchill although
he also committed crimes he was also
guilty of sin and also guilty of
blunder should be remembered by everyone
for all time as the man who saved this
country from defeat and if he had not
come to power when he did I'd be talking
to you now in German although of course
somebody like me would have long ago
been consigned to the concentration
camps or even
worse but there's a lot of people in
this country think Churchill is the name
of the dog that advertises the Motorcar
insurance I don't know what it is about
this
trend of don't mention the war in
Britain it was our finest hour
and Churchill was our finest man I'll be
talking to Lord Alan Watson former
president of the liberal Democrats four
times a parliamentary candidate but now
in the Lords a master of history at
Cambridge University and the author of a
new book on the two speeches that
Churchill made after losing to labor in
1945 which are arguably changed the
course of history again and Lord Watson
will be coming up on the show in the
second hour we'll also be talking about
North Korea now I'm listening to the
media knocking their knees together and
working themselves up into a lather that
a crazy government seems to have got its
hands on sufficient
technology to have a nuclear weapon of
for formidable proportions and I'm
against it I'm against crazy governments
having nuclear weapons of Earth Global
ending
proportions but North Korea is not the
only crazy government with a nuclear
bomb I don't know what law of logic is
followed
by
arguing that the United States LED for
example by George Bush or Donald Trump
can safely be allowed to have thousands
of nuclear
weapons but
Bary Kim Jong Un in North Korea cannot
have one I want all of them taken away I
want all of them destroyed that I
suspect will be the difference between
me and the Korean expert Aiden Foster
Carter honor senior research fellow in
sociology and modern career of Le
University who be with me in the third
hour it's all coming up on the mother of
all talk
[Music]
shows back at grammar school perhaps
Maggie
May otherwise known as our unelected
Prime
Minister has decided to go back to the
future to
challenge the problems of 2016 by going
back to
[Music]
1956 grammar
schools
selection by ability of course purchased
ability through
tutors for the most
part by the age of 11
you'll be a sheep or you'll be a goat
that's at least what Trea May images
Chris McGovern full marks to him is the
chairman of the campaign for real
education and he's going to debate that
with me right now Chris go ahead well
you know we've had um comprehensive
schools for about 50 years and um
according to the international league
table
in terms of social Mobility the UK is at
the bottom so comprehensive schools are
set up to increase social Mobility it's
put us at the bottom of the
international league tables but we are
top of the international league tables
for illiteracy and innumeracy so we do
need to do something about education and
what so we're an illiterate and
innumerate nation is that what you're
saying well according to the oecd the
the international statisticians you like
United Nations what they're saying is
that um we're the only country in the
developed world where grandparents
perform their grandchildren in literacy
and numeracy and we're bottom for
literacy and we're second bottom for
numeracy so International on
International levels we are doing really
badly and a lot of kids are being let
down and this is really an indictment of
what's been going on it's not to say
that you can't have good comprehensive
schools there are good comprehensive
schools around the country if you can
buy into the catchment area you get to
go to them and there are good catch the
good comprehensive schools abroad I mean
you can go to China they have
comprehensive system and it's very good
they have a very high standard and they
are very rigorous the problem is in this
country we're not teaching children in
line with their ability and academically
gifted children able children I think
they need to be given a fair crack of
the wit they need to be taught in line
with their ability now so that so that
they can get even further ahead of the
rest the the goats the goats leaping
further ahead of the Sheep is that what
you've got in mind go as far as it as
they can because they can then generate
some you know wealth for the country
well the country now let me stop you
there because you've just painted a
picture of an innumerate illiterate
failing Britain OD oddly we are the
fifth richest economy in the entire
world how have we managed that well
that's interesting isn't it because the
older Generation The Generation who were
educated in secondary modern schools
like myself by the way secondary mod
school boy um we we uh this 50s and 60
year old generation we're near the top
of the world in academic standards so
it's not as though the older generation
are left in the country they they done
very well we are where we are today
because the older generation were indeed
educated very well Chris we've been the
Chris Chris Chris we've been the fifth
or sixth richest economy in the world
for 30 years not your father's
generation for 30 years yeah and that's
absolutely Grace isn't and that's
because the people who are in power if
you like in the country are indeed a
generation educated 20 30 40 years ago
no I'm asking you why we became so rich
if our people are so stupid so
undereducated so illiterate so
innumerate how come we've done so well
well because what what we're really
saying is that that wasn't always the
case I'm saying that if you go back to
the 50s and 60s we actually were one of
the best educated countries in the world
and we're the only country in the world
where grandparents the 50s and 60s
generation outperform their
grandchildren so we did actually very
well in those days all right let let
let's agree to park our disagreement on
this how is social Mobility going to be
assisted by making uh a return to the
era of selection 11 plus grammar schools
and the drudges in secondary modern how
is that going to assist social Mobility
well first of all as I say we're bottom
of the international League table for
social Mobility you can't get any lower
than that so anything we do is going to
be better what we're advocating at the
campaign for real education is that for
every new grammar school that is
introduced alongside it and better
resourced in fact should be a gold
standard uh Technical vocational school
well why don't we make it double gold
why don't we make it Diamond why why why
don't we make every school a gold
standard school why do you why do you
want to make some schools special in
inevitably leading for all that rhetoric
you've just said about gold standards
inevitably leaving the the bog standard
secondary modern to to Simply limp along
the thing is you know when we introduced
comprehensive schools we also we also
got rid of the academic exam we have a
we have a a comprehensive school system
mixability and we have a mixed ability
exam it's the
GCSE which everybody passes we used to
have something called the ola we still
actually produce o levels we sell it to
our economic competitors like Singapore
we ban it in our own country the problem
with our comprehensive school system is
doesn't function very well partly
because of the methods we use for
teaching and the exam system we've
employed the the theoretically you could
have a grammar school education within
the comprehensive system so you'd have a
bilateral system so that the kids who
are academically able they would be
stretched but also the kids we don't
forget we mustn't get must go away from
this snobbery that somehow academic
grammar is period of vocational we think
that ismar Kingdom Brew now was equally
valid as a as a hero of our of our
nation as Charles Dickens there's no
problem I we if we can have great
academic schools and great vocational
schools alongside them and put more
resources into the vocational schools
because they all need more resources we
can be fair to everybody and we should
do it at 13 or 14 not not at 11 that's
probably too early well you said
probably too early that was of course
the separation of sheep from go Vats uh
for uh for the best part of 100 years in
this country there's no proposal that I
know of to defer the separation uh of
winners and losers uh any later than 11
but I'm against it on principle because
I know because I was there when some
people took a path which ineluctably led
to a rounder education and University
and other children took a path that
ineluctably led to drudgery in a factory
not isembard Kingdom Brunell who by the
way was educated at a private school and
at one of our top universities but
drudgery assembly line work cleaning
digging holes that's what the other path
led to not to uh engineering Excellence
because it was the kids that took the
path to perfection that did the
engineering Excellence well yeah it's
interesting what you're saying of course
we what we're really saying is that we
should have uh a system which is
meritocratic so that people young people
should uh get go into the employment
eras so which they're best suited now I
I've done all sorts of jobs in my life
and I've I've been to Second modern
school as well and I recognize what
you're saying of course a lot of
people's jobs can seem drudgery to us
not necessarily drudgery to people who
are doing the jobs of course because my
father work worked on the factory floor
for 35 years so did mine and and believe
me drudgery was was the middle name
they're quite proud of the fact they D
call for 35 years we mustn't demean
people because they do meet I'm not
demeaning them I'm standing up for them
it's you it's you who wants to leave
them on the scrap heap of drudgery I'm
not demeaning them I'm championing them
okay I thought you demean them I think I
think you know you mustn't put down
people who are doing these jobs we
mustn't put down people doing jobs which
they may well enjoy we don't want we
want people to be suited to the jobs
Chris nobody enjoys drudgery some have
to endure it in order to stay alive look
what I'm telling what I'm saying to you
is people don't find a drudgery you it's
really depending on the person I'm sure
you would find things certain things
judgy so would I but other people don't
necessarily find it judgy I would find
it really hard perhaps to be a to be a
surgeon because I don't know anything
about the job people like to do a job
which they can feel they can do well you
know and sometimes people can do what
can say highly qualified job well others
can't do the highly qualified job well
but they want to earn a living they want
to do something which you might consider
to be dread it's not dread to work in a
coal mine if you want to do that job
would chance would be a fine thing
except Mrs that closed them all but but
Chris Chris if this is such a good idea
yeah why did a succession of Labor and
conservative governments including the
aforementioned Mrs thater not do
it well this the point is you know that
what actually happened is that in the
1970s I suppose the uh the educational
world the educational establishment we
called it really took control of the
situation Margaret thatd can actually
Clos more grammar schools than anybody
else I don't think it was in her
instincts to do that I think she would
like to have kept them open but local
authorities whom she was dealing with
were indeed taken over by people who
have your opinion and thought they were
they were they were iniquitous and they
were so she smashed the miners but but
faded uh the possibility of some Social
Democrat in an education Authority
somewhere come on come on Chris you're
pulling my leg she she didn't do it
because she knew that it cut across the
grain of the opinion of the great
majority of people and this is my last
point to you if I may yeah th how can
this get through a good number of Tories
are against it they've only got a
majority of 12 they have no majority in
the Lords it's not going to go through
is it I'll tell you something you we've
got a situation where we've got the
lowest social mobility in the world
we've got a disastrous situation only
the bright kids sorry only the well off
kids going to private school and those
who can afford to buy homes next to good
schools are getting a good education and
you're absolutely right they haven't got
a hope in Hell the series of made like
everybody else who's confronted the cas
establ is going to be beaten and the
kids from ordinary workingclass
backgrounds are going to stay in the
sink where they are we need to do
something to help them you and I need to
get together cuz I know we're different
in many anyways but we want to help kids
from inner city areas like myself okay
Chris MCG govern thanks for coming on as
I say top marks to you for showing up
chairman of the campaign for real
education what do you think 0844
499
1,844 499
1000 he's a weapon of mass discussion
and he's back on your radio the mother
of all talk shows with George Galloway
on talk radio we'll get you talking now
coming in the next hour we talk to a
specialist in counterterrorism about how
we've managed to avoid a terrorist
attack in this country in recent years
following a number of arrests this week
also the best of Ian Lee is coming up at
1 p.m. and tomorrow morning from 8:00
a.m. Penny Smith catches you up on the
new stories you might have missed this
week Amy Schindler is in to talk about
her new Play Burning Bridges and Penny
talks to author Louise candish all that
is from 8 a.m. and only on talk radio
0844
499 1000 is the number if you want to
call me you can email me or you can uh
text me you can tweet me at George
Galloway or at talk radio as a very
large number of you have done somebody
resounding in the Twitter name the Juke
says is there no way of ridding us of
these tories grammar schools it's code
for another form of elitism and Thomas
Mr Tom says maybe good to take us back
conservatives are the only party with a
backbone and it shows in PM's
questions fedo bul says Wally's own CLP
is backing jezza just proves what a
trojan horse Wally really is this is a
report that actually by more than 2 to
one uh the members of Wally's own
constituency labor party are actually
supporting Jeremy Corbin and farla Hines
says why is there never any discussion
about the majority of population this
country who were not
anti-german well none of us were
anti-german far we were just
anti-nazi uh Norma is on the line from
Bristol on the grammar schools Norma my
blood's boiling at this where do you
stand oh well I just think it's I don't
like this idea that because kids come
from poor working class families they
can't do well I mean I've got three
granddaughters growing up now one's just
got a first class degree from Buckingham
University the other one is working
part-time on a degree and the other
one's going to become a nurse they went
to an ordinary comprehensive School
their father is a bus conductor bus
driver and um they they really they've
got two bedroomed house and it's a
comprehensive school and they worked
hard and I just think at this sort of
feeling that oh dear I know there are
problems but I just sort of think I'm so
proud of the situation that my family
were in and what they've done and
ordinary comprehensive education so I
just wanted to say that really well
you've said it very well my father was a
factory worker an assembly line worker
my mother worked in a fish canery and I
grew up to be a presenter on talk sport
but the point is Norma whatever problems
we've got with uh numeracy literacy
whatever problems we've got with social
Mobility will not be improved by going
back to the 1950s by giving a small
number of children a super duper
education whilst the others lag behind
in so-called vocational streams yep am I
right well you are yes I mean I have got
another theory but it's um probably
haven't got time to give it to you of
course I do of course I do well you
probably won't agree with me um I think
comprehensives by and large are quite
good if you work hard and you've got a
bit of discipline and and if you haven't
got that abil say well you know there
nothing wrong with that but there is a
section of people who are extremely
clever and I think that I don't know
five six% should be streamed off to do
what they can with the big things in
life that we need that that that's the
elitist uh system that we had in this
country for a very very long time Norma
thanks for calling let's go to Fraser in
Bolton go ahead fr
good evening George good evening to you
first of all like to say I enjoyed very
much your Winston Church bit earlier
because I know I much of a a big your
love and uh Devotion to Winston Church
which I always like to throw in the face
of shall we say the drive by
grade yes but actually was about the 11
plus thing now the key in that is the 11
this is insane you you're asking
children each you know yeah starting
from 10 so kids will be preparing for an
exam whilst they are 10 which will
decide the rest of their lives well I've
got an 11-year-old son and the idea of
that having taken place in the last year
is frankly insane and ludicrous and I
would you know as you know George I
received your DVD and it was absolutely
fabulous oh I'm glad you liked it yes
yes fantastic and um in the same package
I also produced Al I didn't produce I
got Michael M's uh film where shall we
invade next oh yeah I've not seen that
yet is it good I I thoroughly recommend
it um and one of the things he takes
back to America only he didn't uh was
the education system in
Finland which every school every school
doesn't matter which neighborhood they
are has the same amount of equipment
same amount of space the same teachers
on the same salaries and it's completely
open the education is
banned so everybody has to mix with each
other so the rich the children of the
rich decision makers get to meet you
know the factory workers creates a
better Society but also what happens in
the secondary school streamers um they
start to identify as what happens in
real life about the age of 14 15 what
people's you know natural Slants towards
are and they have get tailored classes
for them yeah it's Common Sense there's
nothing wrong with that and every
everybody at the same school let's make
every school a grammar school I would
ask that you you're the bright guy you
took the right my life that's exactly
what the point he was making was the
government said well there will be no
private schools everybody goes to the
same school and every school doesn't
matter where you are is the same class
size teacher budget supplies budget
everything
exactly I mean it's not rocket science
if if our teachers were better look
after better motivated were less
burdened by bureaucracy and task after
task being lumped on them if our
children all got the same amount of
money spent on them as the children at a
grammar school or even better at a
private school do uh then our outcomes
would be would be much better I don't
hate private schools I go to speak at
them all the time and I can see uh the
what the parents are getting for their
money the teachers are paid much more
each kid has a spend an average spend on
them which is much more they've got
better facilities better Playing Fields
I'm not against these private schools I
want every school to be like that that's
that's it's common sense you invest how
many times do we hear we invest in the
future you're not investing in the
future with the device of Education
policies right frza thanks for calling
son good to I'm glad you like the film
uh for me say I've never been prouder to
be from old them than when watching the
audience of Question Time blank Wally to
take a selfie with Corbin it was uh
quite funny I must say I have to take a
break for some capitalist messages but
let me give you this phone number 0844
499
1000 listener comrades of the World
Unite the mother of all talk shows with
George Galloway on talk radio we'll get
you talking we will we will 0844 499
1000 that's the number to call as
Richard in leads has just done and he's
on the air go ahead Richard hi George uh
massive fan thank you mate what do you
think of the arguments about grammar um
well I've been through both grammar and
state school um and I can tell you I I
don't believe there's a massive
difference in the teaching uh the the
only difference I found was um the fact
that uh the grammar school had like a
great swimming pool things like that um
the state school was was no different
with teaching just there was more more
students that's it well that of course
that's part of the problem Richard that
the class sizes in the secondary moderns
are bigger than they are in the grammars
but the most important difference and I
speak as one who experienced it is that
you have snob value you have Prestige
value you have Elite value if you went
to the grammar school therefore you're
more likely to get into the university
you're more likely to have your
application plucked out and shortlisted
than if you went to Bogard secondary
modern.com uh and the prestige the
elitism that is in that system is
precisely its point and it's precisely
for those reasons that we should never
go back to that
rich right I'm I'm not 100% sure I agree
with you on that um I I I feel like more
like the um the people in state school
look down on me in a way because I'd
gone to grammar school um as if I
thought they were that I was better than
them yeah well that that that happened
to me we used to get stoned by the uh
other kids at the secondary mon they
used to throw stones at us calling us
snobs uh but of course this was a Creed
deur from them if I may say to somebody
called Richard this was uh this was a
cry of pain from them because they knew
that us with our fancy fancy uniforms
and caps were beginning a process that
would leave them way way
behind Okay well I I wasn't I wasn't
better than them um I understand they
might have thought that um but I
definitely uh I wasn't I didn't grow up
more uh in a richer class I was I was
middle class at best um I just got lucky
basically and there were people at state
school that were more well off than
myself um and I don't feel like I ever
got
um a help in later life because of where
I went to at my private school um he
never helped me in college uh I never
went to University but um I don't feel
like did you say private school or
grammar did you go to a private school
uh private school grammar the same it
was um yeah no a private school you pay
for all private schools are fee paying
schools grammar schools are
not right okay oh dear you didn't learn
much at your private school well
obviously not yeah Richard thanks for
calling all the best to you son now uh
enough said uh tweets yeah but George
tutors are much more affordable than
mortgages near good schools that's a
fair point Nu said that's a fair point
but that's why instead of doing this we
have to do something different I'm not
arguing here for the status qu we have
an underfunded underpowered
comprehensive education system and we
have an
unacceptable gap between some
comprehensive schools and other
comprehensive schools thus you get this
cluster of people moving into houses
near the best comprehensive schools but
there's no excuse for some comprehensive
schools being so much better than other
comprehensive schools now there are
special issues arise in areas uh where
there are high levels of poverty where
there are high levels of children uh for
whom English is a second language well
there are high levels of uh numbers of
children where English is not the main
main language being taught at home but
that needs more expenditure that needs a
special effort to bring those
comprehensive schools up to the level of
those uh that Ned is talking about let's
hear from Steve in Nan go ahead Steve uh
good evening George how are you I'm
Greatful to speak to you again thank you
my
friend well I think we've seen the next
prime minister of this country if you
saw question time last night oh I
thought I thought uh Corbin Corbin gave
him a comprehensive drubbing didn't you
think yeah but it's not only that it's
the way he interacted with the audience
as well I think he was P pure class pure
class yeah it was like it was like um
football supporters of a certain age
will recall it was like watching Jim
Baxter on the ball strolling through the
opposition playing K up he he was a
different class
totally different class and if you can
recall back to when he was going for the
leadership in the first place they had
the big teli s in in the neon which is
just up the road from me George and he
was exactly the same then and that was
with um I Cooper and Liz Kendall and all
them that was up against a better class
of opposition yeah and he was exactly
the same George yeah exactly pure class
and if you compare that to what you saw
from Teresa may in prime minister's
question question s this week it just
shows you the difference between the two
he's got to be our next prime minister I
think she's very limited you know she's
very very limited she's and by the time
the uh general election comes in 2020
after things like this grammar school
debacle and no doubt other problems in
the economy and in Parliament and over
brexit and so on she'll be an opponent
that Corbin can defeat
very very easily I mean I mean you
Overlook at Prim min's questions this
week George I mean what did you get he
was asking about social housing he and
it was all laughed off by these
privileged Silver Spoons she pretty much
avoided every question she was asked
reaching for a series of like
cringeworthy weak pre-written put Downs
she's not even very good she's not even
very good she's I mean she needs a new
script writer she she needs more than
that George I think
I think she's very very weak in in that
regard and as you know and this with the
grammar schools George I mean what are
you going to get if you have that and do
you think that's got anything to do with
covering up with this pressure for
brexit do you think I think it's a
diversion it's well it may not be but it
seems to me such a a suicide mission uh
that I can't think of a better
explanation for it it can't go through
Steve she cannot get it through
Parliament neither house
she's I mean the way they're talking is
if they've got a massive majority or
something it's not going to happen GE
they've got a majority of 12 and I could
name you right now at least 20 Tory MPS
that will not vote for it so it's a dead
duck yeah absolutely a dead do yeah
Steve thanks for calling my friend Steve
in Nan uh a good friend of the show Alan
Bud uh writes in Via Twitter why change
the education system again leave it
alone and get on with sorting brexit
that's you know the point we've had
reorganization after
reorganization we've had reorganization
of the education system of the Health
Service but what we haven't had is
enough financial investment in the
education service or for that matter in
the uh Health Service Steve Ki raises a
good point on Twitter does Mrs may have
a Mand date to carry this through and of
course she does not as was pointed out
by baroness Smith the labor leader in
the House of Lords this very afternoon
this was not in the Tory Manifesto it
represents by anybody's standards a
major major uturn in the life of our
youngest people and there is no mandate
for it not a vote was cast for it
now that's quite a serious
constitutional matter and the House of
Lords at the very least if not the House
of Commons will take a very dim view of
that I believe let me go on with more uh
tweets Lizzy says absolutely quote we
will make room for poorer children
unquote equals admitting that grammar
schools inherently favor the better off
that's absolutely correct well send now
n said says who does the drudgery do we
not need drudgery anymore yes of course
we do although frankly by the middle of
this Century which is not that long
distant most of the drudgery will be
done by artificial intelligence the rest
of us will be writing and reading poetry
I hope if we get the right kind of
society by then Timmy the dog says
social Mobility is a function of social
equality Britain has poor social
Mobility because it has great inequality
very well said Timmy and of course that
is the point we live in a grotesquely
unequal society and the numbers of
people who move from the poor from the
ordinary workingclass people into making
it big in Academia or politics or uh or
uh banking or the law and so on is far
far too small as any fool knoweth John
Joe says the schools don't really matter
it's the effort that the students put in
although school is a factor not big well
I'm with you uh up to a point John Joe I
mean uh I speak as a father of many
children by the grace of God and I
believe that it's the atmosphere at home
the inculcation of learning for its own
sake of reading of searching for
knowledge and beauty and truth that has
to start at the Home in the family and
uh if you inculcate your children with
that then they'll survive much uh in the
school system and go on to do well that
is after all what happened to
uh me I grew up in a house where
no middle class or private school
educated child could have been in a more
inquiring inquisitive environment
whenever I asked my parents anything at
all they told me look it up in your
encyclopedia and they had bought me a
volume from a traveling salesman door
too Arthur me I remember them well
Arthur me's encyclopedia dark red wine
colored uh books and they'd stand over
me while I looked it up in the
encyclopedia now Google is much quicker
than that but I'm not sure that the
Googled information stays in your mind
quite as long let me take one more tweet
before the break uh David says George
the fact that Maggie is pushing grammar
schools is enough for me I remember the
11 and plus no going back well uh time
for one more Lizzie Fletcher I went to
grammar school and loved it but my
sister and brothers who didn't pass the
11 plus are still upset with me now
that's a very good point you know that
you're leaving children behind we should
be striving for a society where no child
is Left Behind where no one is Left
Behind where everyone does the best that
they can and helps through the taxation
system and in many other ways those who
are not able to keep up that's the
definition of a society isn't it it's
certainly a definition of the society
for which I myself have striven all of
my life this is the mother of all talk
shows I'm George Galloway and this of
course is talk radio here for another
two hours I
am across the UK online and On Da a
Radio Star is Born you're going to love
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talk radio the mother of all talk shows
0844 499 1000 that's the number to call
we're discussing grammar we're
discussing terrorism we're discussing
Churchill and Corbin and
Trump across the UK online and On Da the
mother of all talk shows with George
Galloway on talk radio we'll get you
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0844
499 1,000 that's the number to call
we'll be talking about terrorism and the
dangers our country face from bombers
and other terrorist acts and and the
police are doing a wonderful job but
will it be enough to keep us
[Music]
safe call me hav go if you think you're
hard enough to get it the mother of all
talk shows with George Galloway on talk
radio we'll get you
talking every single day the police are
arresting someone in Britain on terror
related charges it has been a long time
since a successful terrorist operation
was mounted here our police are doing a
great job our
counterterrorism police are I believe at
The Cutting Edge of such counter
terrorism in the world we're helped of
course by being an island it's not so
easy for the
ill-intentioned to cross our borders
though that of course does not save us
from those who've been born or are
living already within our own borders
who wish to harm innocent people for
political purposes which is the
definition of terrorism or ought to be
the intelligence Services now greatly
inflated in size and their budget
commensurately increased are also doing
a good job but they could do better in
my opinion sometimes they do things that
increase the danger of terrorism rather
than reduce that danger H there's no
doubt that there are people out to hurt
us I argued as just one of the reasons
why our policy objectively of
encouraging people from all over the
world to go and fight and make Jihad in
Syria as we have had done in the 1980s
in Afghanistan was a policy that was
doomed to
disaster because if these people
succeeded then a long dark night would
descend upon the country in which they
had succeeded and if they failed well
they'd all be dressed up with nowhere to
go and I was once fortuitously for me
though not for him trapped in a lift
with William heg imagine how he felt as
the lift shuddered to a halt with just
me and him in it and I told him William
you've been wrong
before in fact you've been wrong all
your life but you've never been in
before but your
policy of arming terrorism in Syria and
creating a climate in
which radic I alized
extremized Muslims in Britain and
elsewhere will head there to fight is a
disastrously insane policy anyway we
remain in a state of very high alert a
terrorist attack is virtually certain
say those tasked with looking after us
and each time we thwart one of these
terrorist plots then the chances are
we've gotten off uh just in time which
doesn't mean that the police are
necessarily going to catch the next cell
of Fanatics who are determined to wreak
havoc amongst our people so let's talk
to a specialist in
counterterrorism Simon trundle and ask
him how have we been able to get by so
far
without a major attack Simon thanks for
joining us good evening George what
would be the answer to that question I
think a mixture of look good
fortune and um a very concentrated
intelligence campaign to try and
identify individuals who are radicalized
but as Sir Bernard Hogan house said
recently we will not get all of them we
will not detect all of them in advents
and therefore a lot of work has gone
into preparing for what we'll do
immediately after an attack do you think
it's uh is it sufficient the work that's
been done for what would happen after in
your
view I think a lot of the work um where
they've done multi- agency training and
exercises is is uh very very much better
than than it was should we say in the
'90s um now we've got regular exercising
with the police and fire and ambulance
and support services so that uh you know
resources are on site of course it does
depend on where the terrorist attack is
people will fall into the idea that
it'll be London or possibly Manchester
Birmingham but what if it's norfol which
is a bit further geographically from
other places what if it's a a smaller
rural town uh you know a farmers market
then naturally we're going to be pushed
to try and get resources there are we
looking at the uh special danger of what
we might call the Bombay style of attack
uh of seizing somewhere teenic or iconic
and uh trying to hold hostages there
trying to hold out there drawing the
cameras and the media's attention across
the world is that the most likely uh
kind of danger or some lone wolf type of
primitive uh attack with with a knife uh
or or or with a with blunt instruments
wh which in on that range Simon are the
most likely
dangersous the the impossible task of
the police and Security Services nobody
else have is that you cannot rank either
of those potentially as one higher than
the other because you could say you
could look at Kenya and say look at what
happened in the Nairobi shopping center
um armed multiple attackers marauding
through a shopping center for hours um
shooting people who were who they found
hiding initially killing a lot of people
and then you go back to somebody in
France
a lone individual who targets and
identifies two members of the police man
and woman um and attacks them and kills
them in a home nothing more than a knife
so we can't actually sit there and go I
think the knife is more is more likely
to happen yes you can get hold of a
knife much easier you can go to bnq or
any other store and just buy one um
getting hold of weapons a little more
difficult a lot more difficult but not
impossible so we could be looking at a
loan Act shooter that's somebody who's
got a shotgun somebody's got a gun who
will do it h and but as soon as you take
it from that up to a a group of people
who are planning an assault on a major
shopping center and trying to hold it
and contain it for a period of time then
that's a bigger operation and
potentially could be detected with the
security resource we have but the ones
we cannot really detect and have extreme
difficulty in detecting without some
Community Le intelligence is the lone
individual who has decided to pledge
their loyalty and carry out an attack at
the first upper chy it's a Vindication
of our uh our anti-gun culture uh in
this country isn't it because of course
uh terrible damage can be done uh by
someone with a knife or even with a
shotgun but with a shotgun you've only
got two shots uh with a knife you can be
overwhelmed by others but in countries
uh on the European mainland in North
America where the presence of automatic
weapons uh in huge gigantic UND undable
numbers uh the possibility of terrorist
Carnage is much greater isn't it it is
um we mustn't be too complacent because
we do know that from evidence of some of
the drug related deaths um and gang on
gang deaths in London that you know and
other cities that automatic machine
pistols have appeared that other weapons
appear but thankfully they're the Rarity
um you can imagine as you said in a
country where somebody like in America
where Thea was able to buy two weapons
byy hundreds of rounds of ammunition um
you know they had the wherewithall um on
on France they smuggled the weapons in
they believe and they held them there
and they were brought probably brought
in from Eastern Europe they were brought
in Romania they suspect that um here in
the UK it just goes to show we have to
be very very Vigilant at ports um and at
airport well not at airports because I
don't think you be to easily smuggle
weapons AB boort but on P ports uh and
boats and small boats landing and that's
where a stream of the whole safety of
the country is actually going to fall
back on the members of the public and
you'll see these campaigns coming out
saying uh Coastal watch if you're a
regular Walker on the coast and you see
a boat landing late at night or you see
something suspicious phone the police
let them know if you if you hear an
attack happening run hide tell don't
become don't go towards the noise get
away from it as quickly as possible and
now you're looking at at Major retail
Network or or or locations asking May
for advice saying how could we cope with
a Maring arm to Packer when on Saturday
this this Saturday coming we'll have 40
to 50,000 people on our premises what's
the best that we can do to to try and
get them out and that's that's training
staff in evacuation and making sure all
the entrances are clear making sure
people can find their way to entrances
so there's a whole lot that we need
people to do in support of what the
police Security Services and others can
do you you raise uh a question uh that I
think will be occurring to uh some of uh
the audience this evening do we have the
numbers of people uh I mean you
mentioned police fire and ambulance I
don't know about the ambulance except I
know there's a lot of demotivation de de
demoralization amongst many Health
Service Personnel uh but I know that
fire stations and fire engines and firen
have been relentlessly cut back and cut
back do we have enough people at the
ports do we have enough Customs officers
do we have enough coast
guards I I think the answer to most of
those questions is in the negative Simon
it isly and and that's why in recent
months George you'll have seen a series
of Articles whether it was the head of a
a c border um you know borders are
custom saying we need more officers we
need vastly more individuals on the
ground we need more specially trained to
search Vehicles Etc um and the same
applies all the way across the Emergency
Services you know we we with with
cutbacks and centralization of ambulance
resources and call out points rather
than having local ambulances and and
staging ambulances along points on the
motorway where they can be S nor South s
nor Southeast or west at short notice is
is is a good way of looking at it from a
financial perspective you know if
somebody wants to cut cut cut and cut
but eventually you reach the point where
you do an exercise and you realize that
when you do the exercise that there is
no way that you can provide the
resources for a multiple instent so let
alone for one if we have one it'll be
difficult to to meet one major event
with all all the resources that'll be
difficult enough but what if we have
somebody planning to do multiple events
all at the same time similar to Paris
exactly the same as Paris where you had
the St the fronts then you had a
marauding armed attack on restaurants
and bars and then you had the nightclub
they drew people uh and resources away
incredibly fast and therefore we have to
keep on adding resources in exercises to
say if this happens uh if we've all
committed to event number one how do we
respond to Vietnam do we have to keep
back reserves and I think it's
inevitable that the some of the cuts and
some of the plans that said number of
years ago you know we can we can survive
in normal circumstances with this number
of people but they have to be reversed
some of them and there is already
recruitment for more armed armed
officers in in metabolan police and
across the country um there's more
recruitment for Border Force but this
all takes time you don't just recruit
somebody and they're instantly trained
it's going to take us a couple of years
to get up to a a full a better level
than we are at the moment and I think at
the moment the resources we have they're
working incredibly well George they they
you know and I know about the
demoralization among the paramedics uh
my my son-in-law is a paramedic I know
about the working times and the shifts
but he was but his attitude is if
something bad happens I'll be there of
course you know if I'm in leave I'll be
there and I think the same happens with
foreign emergency and look what happens
when we call for people to give blood
members of the public come so I think
there will be a general call out to all
medical paramedic fir police you know
you're off leave you're back in let's
let's solve this together and I think
that's the way we have to respond Simon
trundle a specialist in counterterrorism
thanks very much for joining us on the
mother of all talk shows 0844 499 1000
what do you think about what you've
heard so far uh later in the second half
of this hour we'll be talking about a
man who had to deal
with the terrorist attack on an
unimaginable level the Blitz and the
Nazi aggression against uh the whole
world in the second world war we'll be
talking to Lord Alan Watson libd Lord
and author of Churchill's legacy two
speeches to save the world 0844 499
1000 controversial conversation and
cuttingedge current affairs comment with
the torious B I G G the mother of all
talk shows with George Galloway on talk
radio listen this guy's a admare he's
not a great guy folks you're getting it
later Trump okay I'm George Gallow this
is the mother of all talk shows of
course on talk radio every Friday night
between 7 and 10 my number is 0844 499
1000 and if you call that you could be
on the air just like Laura in central
London Laura Welcome to the the show
thank you very much for taking my call
um if I may talk about um Theresa May
and um Clinton um with Theresa May I
just find it incredible that the
daughter of a VI vica um her father
worked
in uh was the vical something clergy of
a hospital as well so he must have seen
how um having a poorer living a poorer
life affects your quality of life um and
that of your family but I think when she
came into Power didn't she say that she
wanted a more equal Britain and fairer
Britain um but grammar schools won't
create a fairer Britain and as you said
George why why isn't every school a
grammar school exactly I mean isn't that
the isn't that the Target that we should
be aiming at that's right and um if you
come from a family uh where there are a
number of children and all of them go to
grammar school bar
one what would that one child be
subjected to by the other siblings the
mocking the
taunting um the inequality that you know
the bullying that would happen there is
absolutely no doubt about that that you
are if you go to the secondary modern
then there are many in society who
regard you as the the huers of wood and
the drawers of water and that the
children who go to the grammar school
are the leaders and the innovators and
the scientists and the that's right the
the the top notchers of the society in
the future how can that be a good thing
yeah and they are groomed to be
confident and to know that they're going
to go places in their life exactly um
right about
Clinton um I'm I'm not sure if you're
aware but a few days ago she actually in
one of her speeches said that um well
she was alleging that Russia hacked the
DNC emails yes you know and that it was
Russia that gave them to WikiLeaks um so
she's made that allegation and in the
same speech she said that if she gets
into power or when she gets into Power
any country that she deems um has been
hacking
America or the American government or
whatever uh she'll um use military
action in other words she'll go to war
against Russia and any other country
that she thinks has hacked them yeah uh
this is why I I describe this contest as
been between Godzilla 1 and Godzilla 2
that's right there there is no doubt at
all that she is a dangerous she's a D
armed and dangerous person absolutely I
mean George tell me how many wars would
she be content with because we've
already got a few going on yeah exactly
yeah and let's let's pick a let's start
a war with Russia at least Ronald Reagan
was only joking when he said it most
people are afraid that Hillary Clinton
is not joking no she's not joking and um
I don't know if you know but she and
Obama have been um promoting fracking
globally uh with the corporations the
fracking corporations even though they
know that several communities Across
America have have had their water
poisoned by fracking so their
communities are dying slowly of chronic
illness and they can't even afford to
pay for for medical insurance well I'll
tell you what uh one of the new uh newly
announced uh Jeremy Urban policies of
banning fracking will turn out to be a
very popular policy indeed thanks for
that Laura let's go to Spencer in
Chester on the grammar school issue
Spencer welcome to the show hello George
um I'd like to say a few hours ago um I
would have agreed with you on grammar
schools but then since then I've I've
heard the point that we already do have
a kind of selective education in this
country it's house prices I think London
has the highest house prices and the
highest
standard of schooling I think um not the
grammar schools that we had in the 1950s
or in Northern Ireland if we brought
back a different type of grammar school
where they had quotas just just as we
discriminate on a wealth basis when it
comes to taxes if we did that with
grammar schools and say if x% of the
country is in the lowest bracket then
you x% of your students have to be from
that bracket as well I but then then it
wouldn't but then it wouldn't be a
grammar school Spencer a grammar school
is a schol at which you pass a test at
the age of 11 proving in invest in in
inverted commer proving that you are uh
of sufficient cleverness and
intelligence and potential that you
should be separated from your peers and
given an extra special education whilst
your peers get left behind that's what a
grammar school is that that was would be
if you got x marks you'd get into the
grammar school if you said say from the
bottom bracket you take the best X
number of students from that bracket and
the number of students who aren't in the
best X perent in that bracket or sent to
the other schools so it would be still
be a selective form of Education it
would just be a bit different from what
we had in the 1950s but why should we do
it what what good will come of it
Spencer well I think you can get a
higher if you put the intelligent kids
together or the more intelligent kids
together you can get a higher standard
of Education for those kids and if you
had the bracket system I think that
would improve social Mobility but you
can do that in the same school you can
have kids that are particularly gifted
at mathematics being streamed in the
state school system uh so that their
Brilliance in mathematics can uh can
accelerate you don't have to send them
to a separate school with a fancier
uniform with a fancier name and with the
prestige and Elite status that
inevitably widens the Gap in our
society no because if you take it from
the bottom bracket it's not going to be
a wider Gap I think you would have yes
you can do sets in schools but you can't
set art it's the attitude of the
students around you if you group The
more intelligent kids together they're
going to have a more positive attitude
in school well I'm afraid the
relationship between uh uh intelligence
and good behavior is not actually born
out in practice and what you are
suggesting is not a grammar school and
if it were uh then the grammar school
idea would not now be being promoted by
Maggie May Spencer if my auntie had a
beard she'd be my uncle thanks for
calling talk radio and the mother of all
talk shows now coming up after the break
Lord Alan Watson talks about his new
book Churchill's legacy two speeches to
save the world and also of course the
best of Ian Lee coming up at 1 p.m. and
Sunday morning from 8:00 a.m. catch Jake
yap's unique look at the week's news
they try to understand ttip in what the
hell is going on the Setters return and
their guest lecturer is Professor Peter
Aon all that and more from 8: a.m.
Sunday on talk radio now uh I know Lord
Alan Watson to be a master of History I
know him to be uh I think he won't blame
me for saying a partisan of Winston
Churchill who like Lord Watson was once
upon a time a liberal though of course
Churchill was a Tory then a liberal and
then a Tory again he ratted on the
Tories but he ratted and went back uh
profess
uh Allan now Lord Allan Watson has
produced an interesting new book a copy
of which I have on my bedside table uh
right at this moment um and it's true to
say that I'm getting a very large amount
of Twitter traffic that disagrees with
me about Winston Churchill well you're
going to have to listen to my
conversation with Lord Watson to
properly understand it and
him the mother of all talk shows with
George Galloway on talk radio we'll get
you talking now we couldn't get Tom
Watson over the last8 weeks or so the
big ugly bear but we've got a better
class of Watson he's Lord Alan Watson
former president of the liberal
Democrats four-time parliamentary
candidate from theirs he's a master
historian uh from Cambridge University
and he's also a Churchill buff he knows
everything about Winston Churchill and
he has identified two speeches after
leaving office in
1945 that Churchill made at Fulton
Missouri and in Zurich which changed the
course of history not necessarily for
the better as we will discover in the
course of this debate that I'm about to
have with them but
indisputably they changed the course of
history his new book is called Church
hills's legacy two speeches to Save the
World published by Bloomsbury here and
in the United States and we're lucky to
have him on the line from lovely
Somerset Lord Watson thanks for joining
us well good to join you tell us uh
first of all about the book tell us
about these two speeches and why they
were so
important well um they were important of
course uh geopolitically if you like but
they were also very important for
Winston Churchill as a man because
having lost office in
45 uh he was captured by what was
famously known as the Black Dog mood and
he was seriously uh depressed about the
condition he found himself in uh he was
after all left the Potsdam Conference in
order to return to the general election
he didn't fight a very good general
election and he lost it resoundingly and
found
himself you know suddenly transformed
from being one of the most powerful and
important people in the world to being
leader of his Majesty's opposition in
the House of Commons and it wasn't a
transition that gave him any pleasure
and indeed it depressed him
significantly and his restoration of his
own morale just before you leave that
didn't he actually say that he he should
rather have died than be in the position
that you describe no that's exactly what
he said and um he said you know like
Franklin Roosevelt I should have died
and uh he of course did not and he was
um he also said to Lord Moran who was
his doctor um the Flies are gathering on
the corpse uh he was that depressed and
then he suddenly is presented with an
opportunity which he hadn't foreseen
uh he's at Chartwell and uh his
assistant comes in and puts a letter in
front of him and the letter is from a
College Westminster College Fulton
Missouri which was not famous in fact
relatively unknown and it's a pretty
standard letter and it's uh offering him
an honory degree and saying will you
come and speak you see and um he got
quite a lot of these letters of course
but then he looked down the bottom of
the page and there in handwriting
from Harry Truman the new president of
the United States is this simple message
which says this is uh a college a very
good college in my own home state if you
come and speak I will introduce you I
will be there with you and Winston
Churchill immediately thinks what does
this mean this means 18 hours on the
train with the new president of the
United States right back in the center
of things so of course he accepts with
alacrity and he makes this speech uh in
Fon Missouri the first of these two uh
Epoch making speeches really in
1946 tell us how they were as it were
heard I mean the audience of course
nowadays uh I mean we could live stream
never mind Churchill you could live
stream a speech by Tom Watson uh which
would uh by live streaming go around the
world none of that was available in
1946 no there was of course radio and
there was the printed media and
Churchill knew a great deal about both
those two media and uh in fact there was
a worldwide radio coverage of both
speeches the speech in Fulton Missouri
and the speech in Zurich and um the
atmosphere in Fulton was extraordinary
when he actually arrived there with the
president and they walked into this uh
town and he gave his speech in the
little University's gymnasium uh where
incidentally I'm going to go later on
this year and they've even resuscitated
the car that Winston Churchill and Harry
Truman uh went into the town it may even
raise the sap in your own veins well it
does a bit you know it does a bit but it
certainly did for Churchill and he
called this speech originally the sen of
peace but uh it became retrospectively
known as the Iron Curtain Speech and the
purpose of it in his mind was pretty
straightforward really uh he was very
worried by The Return of the Americans
by tens of thousands every week leaving
Europe and going back to the United
States because the European war was over
and he saw this as denuding the defense
of Western in Europe given the
extraordinary um presence of the Red
Army in the middle of Europe uh 300
divisions and um he was very concerned
that Stalin's ambition would not
actually stop simply in the Eastern
sector of Berlin but would wish to
embrace the whole of Berlin and then
maybe go much further within Western
Europe so his primary purpose was to
alert American public opinion as he saw
it to the reality ities of Stalin and
the Soviet position and so he says to
them you know it's not good old Uncle
Joe it's actually Stalin who has
absolute power within the Soviet Union
and has extended that power over most of
Eastern Central Europe and is poised to
take more so you've got to think again
and his his answer is that there has to
be an alliance uh between the United
States and the United Kingdom but
basically a Western Alliance and it has
to use the breathing space that the
temporary Monopoly of an atomic bomb had
given the United States to send a very
clear signal to Stalin that thus far but
no further and he was effectively
announcing uh the beginning of the Cold
War wasn't he I think you could say that
and that's certainly how the Kremlin saw
it but it's also how American public
opinion soed so this speech was
immensely controversial and the roselt
family in particular were appalled by it
and there were a lot of people who said
basically what is Churchill trying to do
he's trying to involve Us in some sort
of British Imperial plan uh the end
result of which will be to make Stalin
an enemy and not an ally uh he saw it
completely differently he his attitude
you know George to Russia was actually
very interesting because he had said in
a toast in the Kremlin in
1942 uh that it is you the Russians who
have torn the guts out of the na War
Machine uh he had a huge admiration for
Russian courage and Russian ability but
he also had a deep concern about where
their Ambitions and the Ambitions of
their leadership might take Europe and
he wanted to draw a line and so for him
fton is about drawing a line wouldn't
another way uh of putting that Lord
Watson be this that uh Churchill was a
lifelong hater of Communism and during
the brief but crucial period uh in which
as he put it uh the uh if uh if Hitler
invaded hell uh I would have a favorable
thing or two to say about the devil in
the House of Commons he recognized
almost uniquely the vital importance of
an alliance with the Soviet Union the
the reli Reliance on the Red Army to
tear the guts out of the Nazi war
machine but once the war was over he
reverted back to his habitual visceral
anti-communism well he was an anti-b
right and he always had been and he
believed that bolshevism um would do
very little for the world and even less
for Russia itself that that was his
position that's what he actually
emotionally and intellectually believed
yeah he never made any secret of that
and uh he and Stalin would sometimes
really joust almost about that because
Stalin was well aware of Churchill's
anti-bolshevism uh and Churchill was
under no Illusions about the nature of
Stalin's rule so there is a sort of
there's a strange kind of mutual respect
between these two uh which lasts the
whole of the course of the second world
war but what um what I think changed
Churchill's mind there were a number of
specific things at the at the end but he
was very concerned that
roselt uh was in his view I think being
duped by Stalin and that the promises
that Stalin had made about free
Democratic choice of the form of
government and so on in the countries
which were liberated from the Nazis but
then in effect occupied by the Red Army
that these were not really worth the
paper they were written on and in
particular uh that surfaces of the
Potsdam Conference of course which is
the last one of the two and incidentally
there is rather an amusing anecdote
about that last pot Stam conference
because Churchill is suddenly ripped
from the top table in the world you know
he's sitting there with President Truman
who's replaced Franklin Roosevelt of
course with Stalin and there's Churchill
and after just a very short number of
days he has to go back to London to face
the general election and Stalin uh
in almost fatherly sort of way says to
Churchill he doesn't say don't worry but
he says you know I have never lost an
election
that had the benefit of being true Lord
Watson I have to take a short break for
some capitalist messages if you bear
with me I'd like to go on talking to you
after the break yes fine absolutely and
we've got zerich to talk about we do a
speech on which uh I view with rather
greater favor I guess
so Georgie Galloway is back on the radio
Galloway
celebrate the mother of all talk shows
with George Galloway on talk radio now
this night in
1940 as indeed the last few nights and
more than 50 nights still to come
londoners in particular were being
blitzed bombarded
remorselessly thousands of our people
were killed many thousands were wounded
uh perhaps as many as
200,000 but they never
surrendered and one of the reasons why
they never surrendered was because by
then they had a leader who was ready to
stand firm until he choked in his own
blood rather than surrender to the Beast
of Hitler fascism all of his crimes and
sins prior to that moment were expirated
in my view by that stand that he made
and it's concurrent conclusion that an
alliance with Stalin and with the Soviet
Union would be necessary desirable
indispensable in defeating that fascist
Beast this
expiates this
washes the sins and crimes of his past
in my view I'm well aware that not all
of you agree with me and my guest this
evening Lord Lord Watson uh doesn't even
agree that all of those were crimes and
sins though I hope we'll be able to come
on to some of them but we're talking
about Lord Watson's new book Churchills
legacy two speeches to save the world
both delivered in 1946 the first of
which we've already spoken in Fulton
Missouri which could be said to have
laid the tracks for the Cold War for
NATO uh for the iron curtain which he a
phrase which he of course uh um uh
coined and which is now uh common place
in our language one of many actually
that Churchill coined which have become
commonplace but let's move on Lord
Watson to the second of those speeches
tell us about the Zurich speech George
can I just make one comment there about
what you just said about
1940 which I think is very important in
understanding all of this Britain was
alone in 1940 yes uh the USSR joins the
war when Hitler attacks Russia the
United States joins the war when Japan
attacks Pearl Harbor there was this
absolutely critical period uh France
having been defeated Continental Europe
having been occupied when actually it
was Churchill and Great Britain who
stood alone and changed the course of
history yeah now um when I was writing
this book two speeches to change the
world uh I was confronted of course by
an assumption that uh the great moment
in Churchill's life is 1940 and his
greatest contribution apart from his own
courage determination and skill was his
oratorical ability to communicate
through the speeches that he made all
now World Famous of course iconic
speeches and really did anything much
happen with Churchill after that in my
view and indeed in Churchill's view uh
the speeches he made in
1946 were of were as important in their
way as were the speeches he made in 1940
that first one which we've discussed
just now Fulton Missouri uh he saw as
critical in engaging the commitment of
the United States to the defense of
Western Europe the second speech he made
in Zurich was and let me just try and
explain that difference when Winston
Churchill went to the United States in
1946 he had two missions one was to make
that speech the fton Missouri speech the
other was to try and persuade the
Americans to reverse their decision to
end Len lease at the end of the second
world war and to extend lines of credit
to Britain which was bust and more
broadly to begin to actually commit
American res sources to the economic
restoration rebuilding of Western Europe
including Western
Germany now that uh in retrospect may
all seem pretty obvious stuff but
actually was very controversial at the
time hugely and Churchill got nowhere
with it uh absolutely nowhere I mean on
the hill he had all these contacts
people he knew very influential people
and they basically said look Winston uh
come on uh Britain is bust Germany's
been destroyed France is on the edge of
political chaos and maybe U communist
government Italy is totally chaotic and
Spain is a fascist autocracy you know
it's not worth a godamn dollar and
something in Churchill tells him maybe
his half American ancestry that if he's
going to change the American attitude
towards restoring Europe not just
defending it restoring it actually the
Europeans have got to get their own act
together they have to do something
remarkable astonishing surprising and
that's what the zeric speeches about he
gets up
1946 6 months after Fulton Missouri uh a
time when the um the Newberg trials on
the Nazi atrocities of Daily News uh
when the French are executing traitors
and collaborators and so on and he says
I am going to startle you and my
goodness he does because what he
proposes is a kind of United States of
Europe Led Led by a partnership between
France and Germany I mean it was quite
extraordinary and general Deo went
virtually apoplectic you know when he
heard and read the speech it was an
extraordinary thing so these two
speeches if you take them together
startled astonished
outraged enraged people uh in throughout
the whole of the western world and
indeed the Soviet Union but actually
they triggered a process which in one
case eventually leads to Nato and in the
other case triggers a process which
eventually through the Marshall Plan uh
leads to the cooperation between France
and Germany the coal and Steel Community
which eventually becomes the European
union now I listened to the Zurich
speech yes it was uh a feast of
intellect and oratory and even the
political line good word in the chilian
context yes it was it was also
politically correct I was a campaigner
as you know uh to leave the European
Union but I'd vote for a United States
of Europe because that would be a
democratically elected and
removable uh government we'd have a an
elected president a congress a senate we
have checks and balances and above all
the European Central Bank would be under
political control Democratic control um
it was uh a fantastic speech I I urge
every it's available on YouTube I urge
everyone to listen to it um you can't
imagine any British politician perhaps
except the and me making such a a speech
today they they simply don't have the
the wherewith all am I right Lord Watson
I think it's about vision and Churchill
actually gave an interview to the Daily
Telegraph as it happens a couple of
weeks before he made the Zurich speech
and it has a very powerful image in it
he says think of a Spanish Prisoner
languishing in a dungeon hundreds of
years ago
and the Man Poor Man has been there for
decades and he feels himself entirely
imprisoned but then one day he staggers
to his feet and he pushes the prison
door and it opens and he's free and in a
way Churchill was saying look we are in
a prison of our own making we have the
terrible consequences of the second
world war all the destruction and
Division and everything else and unless
we actually go to the this prison door
and push it we will not be able to go
out into a new world I think we're in a
very similar position today that because
people are all totally concerned with
dangers risks problems all of that it in
a way prevents them from thinking of
something new something fresh and that's
Churchill
was he was he was a realist you know but
he had this extraordinary
resilience and um he was never going to
take defeat as an answer to a challenge
and um I think it's very important in
our own imagination and our own thinking
now uh after brexit and everything else
we need and and God knows what will
happen in the United States we've got to
in a way take a leap of imagination and
say not only what do we wish to prevent
but what do actually wish to create yeah
now lastly just uh digressing a little
bit the parliament's going to be closed
down and dispersed uh for to get rid of
the rats the four-legged
variety uh and there's a proposal to cap
the number of members of the House of
Lords what do you think of that well I'm
in favor of an elected second chamber
and I do think that we have far too many
members of the House of Lords at the
moment partly because course um the
conservative party when it won its own
mandate in the last general election
suddenly realized rather late in the day
that this was the end of their majority
in the House of Lords so of course
they've created a whole raft of new
peers and we just have too many uh uh I
think there's no doubt about that but um
I would like I would like not for us to
Tinker with it I think we need to do
something radical and we are moving
toward towards a new way of governing
ourselves in the United Kingdom I mean
we have um much greater autonomy for
Scotland and who knows what will happen
elsewhere in the United Kingdom maybe
what we ought to consider is using the
second chamber an elected chamber to
really
represent and express um the new nature
of the United Kingdom where we will have
different nations and regions with much
more power
the great cities of London and
Manchester and all the rest of it
playing a quite different role maybe
something could be done uh in an elected
chamber but on the immediate question do
we have too many peers yes well maybe
I'll sit with you one day in that
elected second chamber Lord Watson
you're a star man Lord Alan Watson
author of a new book published by
Bloomsbury Churchill's legacy two
speeches to save the world I think that
was an excellent interview I hope that
you do too in the next hour I'll be
talking about Korea it's all coming
up across the UK online and On Da the
mother of all talk shows with George
Galloway on talk radio we'll get you
talking listen up comrades of the World
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0844 499 1,000 that's the number to call
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Galloway or at talk radio or at both in
the next hour we'll be talking about
Nutters and coldblooded Killers getting
their hands on nuclear weapons but
enough about Trump and Clinton and
Netanyahu we'll be talking to an expert
about Korea and the young one who seems
now to be able to pack a rather
formidable punch it's the mother of all
talk shows call me have a go if you
think you're hard enough to get it the
mother of all talk shows with George
Galloway on talk radio we'll get you
talking you get it you get my point I'm
as appalled as anybody else that the
Young on Kim Jong Un the leader of North
Korea now appears to have a far more
forbid uh nuclear punch than he had
yesterday or than we knew he had
yesterday but then I was carried off by
Strath police's finest and thrown into a
cell in greck jail for protesting
against nuclear weapons so I have a
right to be uphold it surprises me a
little that people are who are quite
content at George W bush having his
finger on a nuclear button or Donald
Trump if he's elected in November or
Hillary Clinton if she is or for that
matter for David Cameron or T May or
Tony Blair to have his finger on very
substantial numbers of very very
powerful thermonuclear weapons it seems
to me a little well
hypocritical uh for them to claim to be
so appalled as I have a right to be
Korea is uh fascinating often disturbing
place you'd have to know the history and
I don't have time to tell it you but the
fact is North Korea lost 20% of its
entire population in the Korean War
launched by the United States and
Britain and other countries uh more than
half a century ago North Korea is
surrounded by hostile States constantly
on war Maneuvers against it it is deeply
paranoid it would be a good idea if you
ask me
for everyone to take a step back from
the consequences of that paranoia but
hey I'm not the honor senior research
fellow in sociology and modern Korea
Aiden Foster Carter is and he's been
good enough to join us at this late hour
on the mother of all talk shows Aiden
thanks for joining us it's it's a
pleasure uh you left at leed's
University and I was a former resident
of Bradford so I'm sure you'd like
mentioned both of those points yes Le
University you on one thing just to
start with I think we may agree more
than some might expect but the question
of who started the Korean war is not a
matter of opinion it's a matter of fact
and it wasn't uh it wasn't us lot honest
go um that that's just now established
we have the Russian and the Chinese ales
well it was it was us that joined it
Professor surely yeah we on behalf of
the United Nations well you say that but
the the Soviet Union wasn't in the
united na Nations and neither was China
at the time there was a paradox indeed
that the Soviet Union was boycotting the
UN at the time or they could have
exercised a veto and stopped it being
that but in terms of who crossed the
border it's perfectly clear yes it's an
old Nation unified for many hundreds of
years tragic then and now that it was
divided as a temporary measure it was
occupied by Japan and then the people
who liberated it divided it there's an
awful lot of tragedy in that but in
terms of who actually crossed the border
for the gamble I mean the South was
itching to do it it was the North who
actually did it but anyway we probably
want to talk about the present day stuff
we do tell us what happened
today what happened today is that North
Korea launched its first sorry its fifth
nuclear test um these have all happened
in the past decade it's the only country
uh new country no the only country at
all that's tested nuclear weapons in
this Century you quite rightly point out
it's far from being the world's only uh
only nuclear power the pace has
definitely accelerated under Kim jongan
grandson you know of the founder of the
regime it's a strange thing how
communism turns into into a kind of
monarchy but okay maybe we won't go
there maybe we will he's accelerating
the pace um we don't know it was the
biggest one yet apparently you can tell
that I'm not a nuclear expert you can
tell it from the seismographic records
whether he can really fit a warhead on a
missile as he claims um we don't we
don't know for sure but um it's it's
certainly a a cause for worry no doubt
about that at all indeed uh although
this is I promis the last Paradox I'll
bowl at you uh I I heard them talking in
shocked terms at the possibility that
North Korea might have a missile which
could reach the United States but the
United States has thousands of missiles
that could reach North Korea and indeed
are and indeed are pointed at it in yeah
if it it's you're welcome to bold
paradoxes because there are many and
it's good to to to query the
conventional wisdom there is I mean one
thing we'd certainly agree on is there's
a a lot of hypocrisy in the
international nuclear order there are
other Undeclared nuclear Powers I saw in
the Jerusalem Post that Israel condemns
North Korea and it's not so long ago
that the Israelis tried to buy off the
North Korean missile program which which
would actually be be another story um
sorry go on yeah the the the Thousand
Mile uh reach of this rodong missile
which landed in the Sea of Japan
recently seems to indicate a a a
parallel increase in their ballistic
missile capability and the nuclear
Firepower yeah there was the Japanese
who are very much in the front line like
the South Koreans have been totting up
the statistics and uh Kim Jong-il the
middle one the father of the present one
so he he launched about one ballistic
missile these are things they told not
to do by the UN about once a year and so
17 in total in his Reign whereas the sun
is heading for 40 and most of them have
been since the latest UN resolution in
in March this year the the thing I was
going to say is um the the North Korean
rationale for having these things seems
to me to resemble the views of the
National Rifle Association in the United
States why every good citizen should
have a gun because there are bad people
out there and for those of us who think
that's that's crazy um which I suppose
excludes a lot of I'm afraid it does as
you might find out uh in the
Congressional Senate and presidential
elections it definitely do most you know
there are what 200 nation states in the
world of consequen I'm glad that most of
them I obviously everyone seeks security
I'm glad that most small countries think
that it's a better idea either to you
know to join International organizations
to form alliances and so on if everybody
went T and toting like the North Koreans
I honestly cannot see that the world
would be a safer place no I agree I I
agree I agree entirely and I've been
there I don't know you have but uh I
have indeed yes yeah so we both know uh
it's a most peculiar uh regime uh yes
frankly your description of it is as
communist I would if we had more time uh
contend vigorously but let's look what
happens next Professor um is is it I
mean I heard uh Boris Johnson blustering
uh a minute ago talking about a robust
uh response what do they mean by that uh
absolutely um word I'm not allowed to
say to the radio hyphen all I think I
mean this this has this has no meaning
I'm in my view and this is opinion but I
guess that's what we're here for as well
um the the fact that not that Kim dran
has just done this second time in a year
very much accelerating the pace of his
nuclear tests shows that the the the
distinct sort of haish turn that we've
had in Western policy since January
since the last one in fact isn't working
I mean goodness those North Korea is
difficult no one's really got the answer
there people will say more hawkishness
yes you know or or conversely be nicer
to them I mean I don't think that either
of those necessarily Works what you need
is some sort of calibrated mix of the
stick and the carrot and we dropped the
carrot um understandably because you
it's a nasty regime it's very hard to
form any kind of political Coalition for
for aiding them and so on but um since
January it's all been about sanctions
it's all been about painting them into a
corner much stronger sanctions than ever
before but don't seem to be working I
mean China signed up them on paper but
China holds all the cards on this one um
and uh how far China is enforcing the
sanctions we don't know China is cross
but there are things that China would
detest more than the nuclear North Korea
they have and that would be a collapse
of North Korea right on their borders
remember they would hate the process of
that you know would lose nukes and they
would hate the result which would be a
us Ally with US troops and bases on its
soil right on on their borders so um
they they they hold the cards really and
uh there is there's so much Bluster you
know North Korea is a very lwh hanging
fruit we can all agree that North Korea
is horrible and denounce it and denounce
it but then what do we do it's it it's
not working we need to think of
something else well uh I mean Geor Jo is
better than war war we've been talking
about Winston Churchill earlier and
there just hasn't been very much Geor
for quite a long time and as we're not
going to go to war with North Korea as I
always put it
Iraq was invaded because it didn't have
weapons of mass destruction North Korea
will not be invaded because it does have
weapons of mass destruction that only
leaves georgo doesn't it I well that
that is how I that's how I read things I
mean admittedly not to underestimate the
difficulties that there is there's a
20year history of talks with North Korea
and at various times along the way we've
been we've had other crises and we've
been in better places than we are now I
mean anyone around who remembers 1994 I
mean that's when uh Bill Clinton
seriously thought of of striking the
nuclear um base that they have sorry the
nuclear yeah nuclear base at Yong Bon
north of Pyongyang because they were
taking cooling rods out and so on not to
go into all the detail but later that
same year Jimmy Carter intervened saved
the day um we nearly had an inter crean
Summit but kimlong died but we did have
an agreement with the United States and
the North Korean nuclear program the
known one I think they was pretty
clearly were cheating with another one
was in the can and under the inspection
of iaea it was hard to say that on the
radio International atomic energy agency
so you know we've we've gone I think I
think there has to be a diplomatic
component it is very difficult I mean
also they they call the South Korean
president all kinds of sexist names they
called Obama a wicked black monkey I
mean it's hard to believe you know what
kind of mindset um thinks you can you
can say that it would be clever or
sensible to say anything like that or to
think anything like that I don't know
the president of the Philippines was
rewarded with a meeting with that same
President Obama after what he said and
the South Koreans got one instead yes
it's again rather like my NRA comparison
earlier I don't really want to encourage
I mean the the the use of insult in
public life too much no I agree I tell
you what Professor I'm beginning to
think they should send the and me there
we might be able to sort this out thanks
very much indeed for joining us uh
Professor mytic on that but thank you
professor sir Aiden Foster Carter who's
the hon senior research fellow in
sociology and modern Korea at the
University of Leeds and a very smart man
if you ask me Louise Hart uh sends on
Twitter loving the show you said it in
one perfect sentence let's make all
schools grammar schools uh Simon Brian
Ander says gifted students Leap Frog
others a lad at my school passed his GCS
at 14 class sets
cater uh Simon James says social
Mobility is a tacit endorsement of the
class system in an equal Society no
Mobility would be needed I wish I'd said
that I will I will I promise 0844 499
1000 that's the number to call you can
uh tweet me you can text me you can
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minutes to go so lots of time for you to
have your say 0844 499
1000 call me have a go if you think
you're hard enough get it the mother of
all talk shows with George Galloway on
talk radio we'll get you talking let's
get talking first to Andrew in Helen's
Bay in the north of Ireland Andrew
welcome hi George it's good to be back
been busy for the past week make it a
very very nice to hear from you again
what would you like to say um yes I'll
come on Kore very briefly before we get
to the other points now I'm no expert on
Korea but surely if uh America and other
nations around it disarm their nuclear
weapons Al I guess you can never really
know what North Korea will do they may
see hopefully that they are no longer
under any nuclear threat so they may
disarm them I'm not saying the will so
hope that may be a start we all know
from hirosima and Nagasaki with small
atom atomic bomb
the longlasting effects and damage
nuclear weapons have and would cause so
of course we're not going to attack them
funly enough Churchill in that Zurich
speech talked about the proliferation of
nuclear weapons which at that stage when
he made it only the United States had
and how they potentially uh would
destroy the entire Earth that the earth
and the human race would cease to exist
so it's kind of high stakes uh I I'm
just pointing out the hypocrisy of
people uh who themselves are nuts Who
themselves have a long history of
attacking other countries and who
themselves possess thousands of nuclear
weapons uh going all uh Giddy and faint
at the idea of North Korea having one I
know like I mean I I just don't
understand it but like I mean we're
we're I'm all we're all of us can agree
on the fact that we all want nucle dis
arent but surely why should why should
some n Nations be allowed to have some
and not others you know that that ARG
deeply racist I heard there was um at
the time it's obviously things are a lot
better now there's far fewer nuclear
weapons than there was in the past like
there used to be the United States used
to have
27,000 nuclear weapons yeah I heard I
heard someone say I think it was Mar
teacher once said um they had enough
nuclear weapons to blow up the world 400
times at the peak of the Cold War or
something like that yes yes anyway you
wanted to talk about uh the labor
leadership too yeah yeah yes um Jeremy
oh he was phenomenal last night he was
really different class wasn't he no
personal abuse interacted with the
audience so well and the fact that Owen
Smith's supporters who were there were
applauding him tells you all you need to
know about how superb his performance
was I I I felt that it was meaningfully
the end of the contest nobody in the
right mind would vote for for uh for the
uh AR chameleon uh rather than Jeremy
Corbin they might not like Jeremy Corbin
but they can't pretend uh to themselves
even that uh Owen Smith is a better and
more electable
leader but yeah as for Owen it couldn't
have been any more contrasting and there
is an issue that he keeps making up and
I notice this every time he speaks it's
regarding the polls I'm very skeptical
regarding the polls considering how
inaccurate they've been recently
the
the the PS on not a measure Andrew of
public opinion they're are means of
creating public opinion thanks for the
call good luck to you uh Ray my old
friend in Ponte Ponte prath in the South
Wales Valley Ray welcome good evening
George good evening what would you like
to say um I'd like to say um Hillary
Clinton or Donald Trump electric chair
or hang in yeah exactly which would you
prefer exactly
who next will he be putting up uh Donald
Duck Donal Donald Duck versus Mickey
Mouse at least at least they probably
wouldn't destroy the
Earth these two have every potential to
um George if I bought you DVD as I said
to you before and it's excellent butk if
anybody with an apatha sense could have
uh said that if they had chemical and
biological weapons we wouldn't have gone
anywhere near them exactly yeah that's
the point I just made about Korea
there's no way of making a war against
North Korea uh so that only leaves uh
George Jo that's right George somebody
mentioned the Michael Mo DVD I bought it
the same time as I bought us as yeah and
he does a an indepth he goes around the
countries in Europe their Educational
Systems and the Danish system is top
now why can't we go send a delegation
over here I mean our education is
devolved in Wales but it's bottom of the
pile they even diverted money from
Health into education is still ding now
and and bring that model back here when
Michael Mo
contends that us an America what they
want to do is keep the population dumb
and then when they get to um say 16 or
17 then play the fear card yeah you know
what I mean I do I do absolutely Ray
thanks look I've gotd it's really good I
will do I've got a press on because of
the hour and the number of people trying
to get through let's go to Grant in aloa
go ahead Grant hi there George hi um
what I was looking to talk about George
and um you were actually around about um
when it happened um when Tony Blair came
in to obviously his leader a tried to
change the brand of Labor and I believe
personally it resulted in taking away
the workingclass voice and what I mean
by that is um all you kind of tried to
create a middle class image about Labor
and eventually we we end up having no
working class MPS given a voice for the
working class to this day and age and
it's not that I resent the work it's not
that I resent the middle class it's just
I I definitely I definitely think that
there needs to be a more balance within
labor party as and I want to see more
working class MPS out there talking
talking for us if if you get what I'm
saying GE I do and look when I enter
parliament in
1987 there were I was a sponsored uh MP
from the then transport and general
Workers Union uh there were well over
100 maybe nearly to 150 Trade union
sponsored MPS uh people who had been uh
Dockers and Miners And Engineering
workers and uh all kinds of Trades who'
lived in the real world who'd
represented workers at various levels
uh and all of that uh is a thing of the
past by the time I left parliament in
2015 I was one of a tiny handful of
Labor members of parliament who had not
a been to University uh B uh being uh a
kind of uh uh researcher or spad uh or
the kind of FastTrack transmission belt
of a political class from St student
politics straight onto the floor of the
House of Commons straight onto the front
bench and into ministerial office it is
a lamentable development and we have all
been cheated by it Grant thanks uh for
that let me take a few uh tweets and so
on well Adrien says uh Trea May has no
mandate everybody seems oblivious to the
fact that she was appointed not elected
as prime minister absolutely uh now I
said earlier uh that uh Jeremy Corbin
had performed like Jim Baxter in his
pump uh but the time traveler says more
a mixture of all the best qualities of
Jinky that's Jimmy Johnson of the Celtic
and Jim Baxter and Davey Cooper two of
the greatest of all Rangers uh players
fair enough fair enough it was the
strolling point that I had in mind uh
that's why I chose Baxter he Jim Baer
with the ball At His Feet you got the
impression like a knife through butter
he could stroll through the opposition
because he was Head and Shoulders above
them that's the point I was making Peter
Cook says the tax system isn't directly
related to a quality fully fund public
education system and cherl Lara says
when a terrorist is armed by the US he's
called a freedom fighter when the US
invades a country it's called Liberation
and Mark Doran says any guesses as to
who said I hate Indians they are a
beastly people with a beastly religion
wrong hero GG well Mark you just weren't
listening or maybe you sent that tweet
before I explained nobody needs to
educate me on the racist and imperialist
and conservative Tory right-wing
character of Winston Churchill nobody
needs to tell me about his crimes
against the people of Ireland against
against the people of ton pande in the
south of Wales against the people in
George Square in uh in Glasgow against
whom he sent tanks about his role in the
general strike nobody needs to lecture
me on these things mark my point is that
there would be no Britain there would be
no democracy there would be no Freedom
there would be no mother of all talk
shows there would be no ability to
communicate Progressive or leftwing
ideas at all because the Gestapo would
be ruling our country the ver would have
invaded and occupied us and might occupy
us still and not just us but be in
occupation fascism triumphing across the
entire Globe don't you get my point it
can't get much more serious than that
there would be nothing do you understand
just a
void if not for the decision of
Churchill to refuse to surrender when
his foreign secretary Halifax and the
the king
himself was ready to make a surrender
peace with Hitler and others including
the owners of the major
newspapers wanted to actually see the
victory of hitlerism don't you see Mark
that no matter how many vile quotes from
Winston Churchill you throw at
me that moment in
time that moment on which the entire
history of the world
turned is what
expedites what
wipes any crime any sin any ugly
statement ever made by Winston
Churchill he's a weapon of mass
discussion and he's back on your radio
the mother of all talk shows with George
Galloway on talk radio we'll get you
talking 0844 4991 th000 call me up
you've still got 25 minutes or so to get
through and join the great debate now uh
the best of Ian Lee is coming up after
me at 10:00 and tomorrow morning from
800 a.m. Penny Smith catches you up on
the new stories you might have missed
this week Amy Schindler is in to talk
about her new Play Burning Bridges and
Penny talks to author Louise candish all
that is from ATM and only on talk radio
uh Kinski says uh well we've got plenty
of health and safety equality and
diversity and managers though so all is
well not uh George I know you don't like
Hillary but please it's time to support
the lesser of two evils before it's too
late even Bernie had to says Ray in
London but I don't accept that she's the
lesser of two evils neither do I accept
this concept of always going for the
lesser of two evils because that's an
open invitation for everybody at the top
to get more and more evil because if the
Lesser evil knows that they can count on
your support no matter how evil they
themselves are then there is no stopping
them becoming more and more evil so
Bernie shouldn't have Bernie should have
run as an independent presidential
candidate with my candidate Dr Jill
Stein of the green party as his running
mate that's what should have happened
and if I had a vote it would now be
going to Dr Jill let's hear from Edward
in Barnett on Trump and Clinton go ahead
Edward hi George hi hi um well
ordinarily I think I disagree with you
on most things on this issue of trump
and Clinton I tend to agree with a lot
of the things that you say I think that
one of the issues I have though is you
see certainly in the British media Trump
gets a really rough ride which I think
is totally deserved a lot of the things
he says a vile and it's he should be
exposed for exactly what he is but
Clinton seems to get a very very easy R
she does yeah a lot of the scandals
she's been involved in and you know the
scandals whether it's this more sort of
harmless things you know lying about
coming under sniper fire in Bosnia white
waterer Scandal I mean there's a whole
raft of things they just don't get
talked about and these things get
brushed under the carpet I'm just really
curious for your thoughts on why we've
continuously got this barrage of
rhetoric coming out of trump which is
making front pages but then with Clinton
there's so much more I think we could be
talking about which just never gets
exposure in the media and that's on the
left and on the right yeah absolutely
they want Clinton to win so they are
covering up the gigantic scandals uh I
mean the one you quoted uh is a scandal
only in that it proves her to be a liar
uh well of course most uh leading
politicians are liars uh but it is an
important example of which she is ready
to invent uh uh facts which uh are
simply contradicted even by the simplest
uh look at the video and uh and public
record but
the other scandals that she is involved
in are far far more grave and I have no
doubt at all that we're in for more and
more war if Hillary Clinton becomes the
president and I will not support her uh
I don't accept uh by the way that she's
less evil than uh Donald Trump you could
make an argument I don't that actually
he's less evil than her in the sense
that he's less ready to go to war with
all and Sury I don't myself I think
they're equally evil and equally
dangerous go on go on Edward yeah I was
just going to say I think that she'll
take money from anyone and if you look
at going back to Bill Clinton's Reign
and the money that they were taking the
well the lack of transparency money de
they're deeply corrupt people the
clintons but it just doesn't get exposed
I don't understand it and it's a it's a
left and a right issue they don't want
to come out with it and I understand the
American media because obviously America
they want their president they want
Clinton they see Trump as a huge
uncertainty and a massive liability but
why in the British media does it not get
the same exposure well uh as I said they
they want to first of all you've got the
feminist uh angle uh at play uh that uh
the liberal media the guardian and so on
are infatuated with the idea of a woman
president even if the woman is a monster
I mean we had a woman prime minister but
she was a monster so she was no gain uh
for the female gender in my view uh
neither would uh having Hillary Clinton
and Bill cuz of course he'll be moving
in with her having them uh running the
White House again uh I I just don't
accept that that is a good
thing no I don't I don't think it is a
good thing I don't even think they have
a particularly good track record and I
think that there's something really to
be said about the fact that if she does
become president we're going to have had
four of the last five presidents I think
it is we're coming from two families and
we're not talking about two exceptional
families and it really raises the
question in a country of so many
resources a huge population so much you
know fantastic universities so much
talent how can they come up with these
two awful people well in a way that you
know Edward that is The
$64,000 Question uh as they used to call
it and I've asked it of John lautier and
other uh American Sages over the years
uh and and and I just I honestly don't
get it the the United States with its
fantastic universities it's fantastic
science base it's fantastic level of uh
o of achievement it's can do spirit that
can send people to the moon and headed
towards Mars and so on they come up with
these two as the best uh Choice
available it doesn't make any sense to
me that well I think it's Lely Finance
isn't it you look at who can get who can
get themselves bankrolled who can get
themselves in front exposure who's got
that kind of money I don't think in this
country at least you can say if you
don't have a lot of money you can get
yourself into Parliament here it's sorry
in America it's a completely different
story yeah but I mean why why can't
better people than those two uh fund
raise and and get people behind them why
not because the Richer tend to have the
bigger connection so if you've got more
money you're likely to have better
connections and you're better likely to
get that sort of funding and I think in
the case of Clinton in particular she'll
take funding from anyone so they'll
happily sort of broaden their coffers uh
with money which comes from perhaps
sources which if it was in this country
would be totally
unacceptable yeah I'm with you on that
Edward it's been a pleasure talking to
you even if you normally disagree with
me thanks very much for calling the show
you've still got a few minutes to do so
uh if you haven't 0844
4991 pardon me 1,000 but let me go
through more of the tweets Etc uh Levi
Jordan says Jeremy was nothing short of
Sensational in Luke the part too have
you been giving him fashion tips George
my lips are sealed but I thought he
looked very smart Ian gold says I guess
she put DNC phone hacking allegations as
a top security issue which shows how
insane she is Michael John says how can
we distinguish between a real terrorist
attack and a false flag attack designed
to sway public opinion well uh Michael
if it looks like a duck walks like a
duck and quacks like a duck the chances
are it will be a duck Adam Eckles says I
think the United States will lose no
matter which candidate is chosen in my
opinion they are both awful I agree what
do you say 0844 499 1000 particularly if
you're a woman if you're a woman pick up
the phone now and dial me 0844 499 1000
cuz I'm determined that this will not be
the talk sport type of show two male
dominated although we have had I think
two women callers uh tonight that's
better than normal but it's still not
50/50 which is the least I
expect lessener comrades of the World
Unite the mother of all talk shows with
George Galloway on talk radio we'll get
you talking now the aforementioned Mark
Doran is getting silly now on uh Twitter
uh with reference to the points I made
about Churchill earlier he says gosh
Churchill did all that how did one man
shoot down all those bombers and
Fighters sink those UB boots Etc listen
Mark my point is if not for Churchill we
wouldn't have been shooting them down we
wouldn't have been fighting them if not
for Churchill we would have surrendered
to them and there would have been nobody
shooting them nobody sinking them you're
a young man so I'm going to give you the
uh the
exculpation that comes with actually not
knowing what you are talking about but
listen to somebody who does know and
here's what I know that the ruling Elite
in Britain wanted to surrender to
Hitler either because they secretly or
even openly agreed with him or because
they thought the cause was lost and if
it were not for the fact that Churchill
came to power in 1940 the war would have
been
over don't you understand that Mark and
if it had been over fascism Nazism would
have
triumphed and therefore everything else
would be a void would be a nothing think
of that a
nothing Maria's on in PE go ahead
Maria oh hello George I'm glad I made a
call for a woman caller and I've got one
thank you um um the reason why I'm call
calling you tonight is uh because I life
you maybe to raise awareness about was
happening to people who are
ill and applying for benefits and how
this health assessment advisory Services
is using private companies that Tre
people really app
poly I am the victim of that system and
there are a few private
companies so tell me what what happened
to you well what happened to me I was
um suffering from depression I I had
really bad flu spells every
winter I was and then I was diagnosed
with
post viral um fatigue syndrome
Etc um I went to one of these um
assessments
and I was given zero points apparently
it's a point of if you can lift your
left arm well can you lift your right
arm some there was a lady there I
thought it was a doctor I Leed are not
doctors um few months after I was
fighting for my life so they found you
they found you to be fit for work when
you were not fit to work this is part of
this Scandal the atos uh Scandal uh
which we we'll talk about on another
night but it's really good that you made
the point because it is a part of Tory
Britain that is
underexposed the only disaster is that
it was introduced not by the Tories but
by the last Labor government Maria
thanks for the call I'm pressing on only
because of the hour and I want to hear
Lizzie in Gloucester on grammar schools
go ahead Lizzy hello how are you I'm
good by the grace of God the better of
for hearing from you go ahead well I
just wanted to say I did tweet to you
earlier that I went to grammar school
and my brothers and sisters were all
slightly agust and and still treat me
with some contempt now because they
failed the 11 plus yeah because they
were deemed failures and you were deemed
a success at at 11 years of age that's
right but I felt that I was going that I
was going to somewhere I was
academically more advanced than others
so I felt that I was going to somewhere
that would feed that Academia and they
were going to somewhere that would feed
their abilities and skills in other
directions uh such as Engineering
Building farming that's the of course
that was true for some but not not for
the real Engineers the real Engineers I
mean my father left school at 14 he was
an engineering worker that didn't mean
he was an engineer no that's right
that's right and but I always felt quite
ostracized and and my family still take
the Mickey out of me
now I don't think it Advanced my life in
any way just made me talk a little bit
differently from them and I mean what do
you think is the reason why Maggie May
is uh is intent on taking us back to
that
sister um I should imagine so that she
can because we're running out of
brains um and we're not educating anyone
anymore unless well we are educating uh
privately quite well and in some State
Schools teachers have a huge ambition to
educate people and those teachers that
are good and want to educate people will
be successful in doing that wherever
they are in in whatever part of the
country they are but I think that um you
know it's getting so that it's like the
royal family you know they're in breed
well we better not go down that road too
far Lizzie thanks for that call I've got
to say though Liz I don't accept this
picture that has been painted tonight
that Britain is a stupid country if we
were a stupid country then we would not
have the many good things that we do
have even though they are increasingly
under threat we would not be the fifth
richest country in the world uh our uh
our uh stock market would not be at the
highest it been for very very many uh
years we have an
enormously huge number of skilled and
talented and hardworking people I don't
believe that we are stupid we could be
much more we could be much better we
could be really really world class if we
had a government that was ready to
invest in that this government proposal
takes us in entirely the wrong direction
that's my point Lizzie Gloucester thanks
very much for joining me Aiden Bradley
says what a choice for the Free World a
certifiable clown or a scheming
sociopath Bravo America very well put uh
Simon uh Brian
Ander says there's no shortage of
Brilliance from our schools the problem
is there is no shortage of Forgotten
ignored kids that's true Steven kry if
this Country carries on at this rate it
will will become more and more divided
Corbin must be voted in David Stevenson
sents a message which says George do you
think that with the suspension of the
Labour party constituencies that the
rightwing will attempt to get compliant
supporters to be sent I presume though
it's lost uh to conference I think it's
uh over and that's what I think of
course everybody's got to vote but I
think the Revolt is over uh Terry Clark
says we still sell arms to Saudi Arabia
uh who conducted its own investigation
into war crimes and found itself
innocent the British Parliament by the
way is about to uh have a select
committee report which recommends that
the government uh stop selling arms to
Saudi Arabia because those arms are
being used for internal repression and
external aggression there's a rear guard
action though being fought in inside the
select committee uh by people I can only
put it this way who are creatures of the
arms dealing industry and I refer in
particular to the so-called uh labor MP
John speller who is uh described as uh
someone who fights for the interests of
the weapons industry and chrisen blunt
the chairman of the select committee in
uh the first place both of these are
fighting a rear guard action in defense
of arms
dealers even when it is abundantly clear
that Saudi Arabia is one of the darkest
if not the darkest tyranny on the earth
that crucifies and I mean crucifies I
mean literally nails to a
cross those guilty of
asking for democracy in their country
Saudi Arabia is a country that has
decapitated in public on
television more people in
2016 than Isis Saudi Arabia is a country
where women are forbidden to drive motor
cars or to step foot on the pavement
outside their house without the
accompaniment of a male relative Saudi
Arabia is a country where you get thrown
into a dungeon and
tortured quite possibly to death for
entertaining ideas like Freedom Liberty
democracy Saudi Arabia is a country that
invades its neighbors it has invaded
Bahrain using British weapons it has
invaded Yemen using British weapons it
is sending British weapons to the Isis
and Al-Qaeda armies in
Syria now that's not a country that we
should be doing business with and I
don't care if it costs the arms dealers
an arm and a leg
metaphorically if we ban them from
selling weapons to these tyrants because
there are hundreds of thousands of
people have lost their arms and their
legs as a result of the policies of
these tyrannies so let me go on enrio
tortolano what a wonderful name says
Hillary Clinton is a threat to peace and
prosperity everywhere Malcolm Hurst says
of course the Americans armed the
Taliban to fight the Russians that went
well and Malcolm Finch says you're right
George treesa May is the iron Looney
will kids who fail the 11 plus be put to
work up chimneys ha
that's a very good point to end on it's
been marvelous uh for me I hope it was
also for you from now on for me she is
Maggie May