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across the UK online and On Da the

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mother of all talk shows with George

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Galloway on talk radio we'll get you

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talking listener comrades of the World

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Unite he's a weapon of mass discussion

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and he's back on your radio get ready

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for a revolutionary rumble on your radio

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with the original George of the

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political jungle Galloway celebrate the

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mother of all talk shows with George gy

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Comey have a go if you think you're hard

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enough

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on the radio station that gives power to

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the people talk radio we'll get you

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talking 0844 499 1000 that's the number

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to call write it down because I don't

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want to have to keep saying it every 5

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minutes

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0844

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4499 1,000 to join the great debate the

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University of the airwaves although I

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never went to University and I've got

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strong views about grammar schools as

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you're about to find out and so is the

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hapless sap who's going to turn up to

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debate it with me it's the mother of all

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talk shows call me have a go if you

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think you're hard enough get it the

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mother of all talk shows with George

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Galloway on talk radio we'll get you

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talking I'm not even going to mention

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Wally even though we've yet again tried

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to get him and yet again he's un

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available because he is dead in the

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water that is surely the conclusion that

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anyone who watched the special edition

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of question time last night anybody who

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votes for Owen Smith I think that's his

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name his proper name Owen Smith is not

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fit to challenge Jeremy Corbin for the

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labor leadership and I don't believe the

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any amount of rigging and my goodness

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has there been plenty of that is going

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to deprive Corbin of a substantial

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victory in just a few weeks time but do

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keep voting if you've been lucky enough

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to survive Purge one and Purge too in

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any case I've got more important things

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to talk about grammar schools constitute

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class war and Theresa May's answer to

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the problems of

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2016 it turns out is a return to the

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1950s the

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1950s when sheep were separated from

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goats at the age of 11 by the device of

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an 11 plus examination fail it and you

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were destined for a teenage and father

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lifetime of drudgery and and repetition

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pass it and you could become one of the

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elite able to go on to the

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aforementioned universities we won't

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stand for it you know Mrs May neither

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parents nor teachers nor many of your

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own honorable colleagues two of whom two

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already senior conservative politicians

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both were

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have explicitly rejected your idea labor

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is opposed Liberals are opposed

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nationalists are opposed anybody with

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any sense is opposed to going back to

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the future look the idea that the

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existing divisions and inequalities in

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our society will be healed or bettered

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by adding to them at the age of

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11 surely doesn't bear any kind of

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examination and I don't believe that it

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will pass the House of Commons I don't

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believe it has any chance of passing the

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House of Lords and I'm questioning her

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sanity she's got a waer thin majority in

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Parliament and she has launched a policy

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that even Mrs Thatcher bulked at so is

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this an effort to be Maggie May or is it

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some kind of device to distract divert

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uh the attention of her own

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parliamentary party away from their

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potentially fatal Schism still over the

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question of brexit uh we'll be

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discussing in the course of the show

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with Chris McGovern chairman of the

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campaign for real education who I

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understand is a supporter of grammar

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schools and uh I look forward to that I

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hope he does as well we'll be talking

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about the anniversary of the blitz 58

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nights consecutive London was burning 8

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months one week and 3 days the rest of

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the country as well as London was

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burning almost 200,000 people were

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either killed or wounded in the Blitz

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very few people ever talk about that

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even remember that almost 200,000 whole

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streets were cleared

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factories workshops Railway

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infrastructure even Parliament

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itself was partially destroyed in that

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Blitz and yet we never surrendered we

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never surrendered because we are or were

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a great people who were determined to

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stand up to Hitler fascism even when we

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were left doing so alone when European

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governments like the government in the

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Netherlands threw up their hands in

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surrender when the French surrendered

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when the Americans were watching the war

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on

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usel and when the Soviet Union having

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tried and tried and tried again to put

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together a coalition of Western

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countries with themselves to thwart

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hitlerism when all that had been

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rebuffed the Soviet Union made a

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separate deal with Hitler and sat out

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the early part of the war therefore

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during that Blitz we were entirely alone

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and inside the cabinet room and inside

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the Parliament and inside the pal

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and inside the city and inside some of

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the country's then great newspapers

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there were people many people who were

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willing Hitler to win there were others

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who assumed that there was no other

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outcome possible but one man one man in

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the British political

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firmament said We Will Never Surrender

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he told his cabinet colleagues that not

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until he and they lay on the floor of

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the cabinet room choking in their own

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blood would we succumb to the hordes the

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barbaric hordes of Hitler fascism and he

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meant it by the way now Hitler

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committed great crimes and great sins

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and is correctly damned for all history

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for for what he did Churchill although

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he also committed crimes he was also

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guilty of sin and also guilty of

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blunder should be remembered by everyone

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for all time as the man who saved this

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country from defeat and if he had not

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come to power when he did I'd be talking

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to you now in German although of course

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somebody like me would have long ago

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been consigned to the concentration

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camps or even

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worse but there's a lot of people in

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this country think Churchill is the name

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of the dog that advertises the Motorcar

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insurance I don't know what it is about

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this

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trend of don't mention the war in

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Britain it was our finest hour

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and Churchill was our finest man I'll be

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talking to Lord Alan Watson former

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president of the liberal Democrats four

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times a parliamentary candidate but now

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in the Lords a master of history at

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Cambridge University and the author of a

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new book on the two speeches that

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Churchill made after losing to labor in

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1945 which are arguably changed the

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course of history again and Lord Watson

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will be coming up on the show in the

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second hour we'll also be talking about

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North Korea now I'm listening to the

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media knocking their knees together and

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working themselves up into a lather that

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a crazy government seems to have got its

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hands on sufficient

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technology to have a nuclear weapon of

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for formidable proportions and I'm

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against it I'm against crazy governments

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having nuclear weapons of Earth Global

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ending

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proportions but North Korea is not the

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only crazy government with a nuclear

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bomb I don't know what law of logic is

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followed

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by

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arguing that the United States LED for

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example by George Bush or Donald Trump

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can safely be allowed to have thousands

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of nuclear

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weapons but

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Bary Kim Jong Un in North Korea cannot

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have one I want all of them taken away I

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want all of them destroyed that I

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suspect will be the difference between

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me and the Korean expert Aiden Foster

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Carter honor senior research fellow in

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sociology and modern career of Le

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University who be with me in the third

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hour it's all coming up on the mother of

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all talk

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[Music]

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shows back at grammar school perhaps

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Maggie

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May otherwise known as our unelected

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Prime

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Minister has decided to go back to the

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future to

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challenge the problems of 2016 by going

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back to

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[Music]

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1956 grammar

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schools

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selection by ability of course purchased

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ability through

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tutors for the most

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part by the age of 11

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you'll be a sheep or you'll be a goat

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that's at least what Trea May images

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Chris McGovern full marks to him is the

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chairman of the campaign for real

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education and he's going to debate that

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with me right now Chris go ahead well

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you know we've had um comprehensive

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schools for about 50 years and um

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according to the international league

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table

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in terms of social Mobility the UK is at

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the bottom so comprehensive schools are

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set up to increase social Mobility it's

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put us at the bottom of the

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international league tables but we are

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top of the international league tables

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for illiteracy and innumeracy so we do

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need to do something about education and

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what so we're an illiterate and

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innumerate nation is that what you're

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saying well according to the oecd the

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the international statisticians you like

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United Nations what they're saying is

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that um we're the only country in the

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developed world where grandparents

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perform their grandchildren in literacy

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and numeracy and we're bottom for

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literacy and we're second bottom for

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numeracy so International on

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International levels we are doing really

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badly and a lot of kids are being let

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down and this is really an indictment of

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what's been going on it's not to say

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that you can't have good comprehensive

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schools there are good comprehensive

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schools around the country if you can

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buy into the catchment area you get to

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go to them and there are good catch the

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good comprehensive schools abroad I mean

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you can go to China they have

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comprehensive system and it's very good

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they have a very high standard and they

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are very rigorous the problem is in this

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country we're not teaching children in

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line with their ability and academically

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gifted children able children I think

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they need to be given a fair crack of

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the wit they need to be taught in line

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with their ability now so that so that

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they can get even further ahead of the

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rest the the goats the goats leaping

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further ahead of the Sheep is that what

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you've got in mind go as far as it as

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they can because they can then generate

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some you know wealth for the country

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well the country now let me stop you

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there because you've just painted a

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picture of an innumerate illiterate

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failing Britain OD oddly we are the

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fifth richest economy in the entire

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00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:21,600
world how have we managed that well

281
00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:24,079
that's interesting isn't it because the

282
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,480
older Generation The Generation who were

283
00:14:24,079 --> 00:14:26,880
educated in secondary modern schools

284
00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:30,880
like myself by the way secondary mod

285
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:32,440
school boy um we we uh this 50s and 60

286
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:35,079
year old generation we're near the top

287
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,800
of the world in academic standards so

288
00:14:35,079 --> 00:14:38,120
it's not as though the older generation

289
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,040
are left in the country they they done

290
00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:42,680
very well we are where we are today

291
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:45,079
because the older generation were indeed

292
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:48,199
educated very well Chris we've been the

293
00:14:45,079 --> 00:14:51,519
Chris Chris Chris we've been the fifth

294
00:14:48,199 --> 00:14:54,759
or sixth richest economy in the world

295
00:14:51,519 --> 00:14:58,600
for 30 years not your father's

296
00:14:54,759 --> 00:14:59,920
generation for 30 years yeah and that's

297
00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,440
absolutely Grace isn't and that's

298
00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:03,240
because the people who are in power if

299
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:06,199
you like in the country are indeed a

300
00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:08,639
generation educated 20 30 40 years ago

301
00:15:06,199 --> 00:15:10,959
no I'm asking you why we became so rich

302
00:15:08,639 --> 00:15:13,040
if our people are so stupid so

303
00:15:10,959 --> 00:15:15,480
undereducated so illiterate so

304
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,680
innumerate how come we've done so well

305
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,240
well because what what we're really

306
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,160
saying is that that wasn't always the

307
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:23,199
case I'm saying that if you go back to

308
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:25,240
the 50s and 60s we actually were one of

309
00:15:23,199 --> 00:15:26,759
the best educated countries in the world

310
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,160
and we're the only country in the world

311
00:15:26,759 --> 00:15:30,519
where grandparents the 50s and 60s

312
00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,920
generation outperform their

313
00:15:30,519 --> 00:15:33,839
grandchildren so we did actually very

314
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:36,000
well in those days all right let let

315
00:15:33,839 --> 00:15:40,199
let's agree to park our disagreement on

316
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:45,560
this how is social Mobility going to be

317
00:15:40,199 --> 00:15:49,680
assisted by making uh a return to the

318
00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:53,480
era of selection 11 plus grammar schools

319
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:56,720
and the drudges in secondary modern how

320
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:58,160
is that going to assist social Mobility

321
00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,680
well first of all as I say we're bottom

322
00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,800
of the international League table for

323
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,839
social Mobility you can't get any lower

324
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,000
than that so anything we do is going to

325
00:16:03,839 --> 00:16:08,279
be better what we're advocating at the

326
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,600
campaign for real education is that for

327
00:16:08,279 --> 00:16:12,240
every new grammar school that is

328
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,800
introduced alongside it and better

329
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,600
resourced in fact should be a gold

330
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:18,079
standard uh Technical vocational school

331
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,519
well why don't we make it double gold

332
00:16:18,079 --> 00:16:23,480
why don't we make it Diamond why why why

333
00:16:20,519 --> 00:16:25,680
don't we make every school a gold

334
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:28,920
standard school why do you why do you

335
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:31,319
want to make some schools special in

336
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:33,880
inevitably leading for all that rhetoric

337
00:16:31,319 --> 00:16:38,560
you've just said about gold standards

338
00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:43,440
inevitably leaving the the bog standard

339
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:45,279
secondary modern to to Simply limp along

340
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:47,720
the thing is you know when we introduced

341
00:16:45,279 --> 00:16:50,440
comprehensive schools we also we also

342
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:52,639
got rid of the academic exam we have a

343
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:54,480
we have a a comprehensive school system

344
00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:55,639
mixability and we have a mixed ability

345
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,000
exam it's the

346
00:16:55,639 --> 00:16:59,560
GCSE which everybody passes we used to

347
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,680
have something called the ola we still

348
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:04,079
actually produce o levels we sell it to

349
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:06,360
our economic competitors like Singapore

350
00:17:04,079 --> 00:17:07,760
we ban it in our own country the problem

351
00:17:06,360 --> 00:17:09,319
with our comprehensive school system is

352
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,640
doesn't function very well partly

353
00:17:09,319 --> 00:17:12,360
because of the methods we use for

354
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,679
teaching and the exam system we've

355
00:17:12,360 --> 00:17:16,439
employed the the theoretically you could

356
00:17:14,679 --> 00:17:18,280
have a grammar school education within

357
00:17:16,439 --> 00:17:21,240
the comprehensive system so you'd have a

358
00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:23,240
bilateral system so that the kids who

359
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,720
are academically able they would be

360
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,079
stretched but also the kids we don't

361
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,240
forget we mustn't get must go away from

362
00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:30,799
this snobbery that somehow academic

363
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:33,760
grammar is period of vocational we think

364
00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:35,799
that ismar Kingdom Brew now was equally

365
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:38,080
valid as a as a hero of our of our

366
00:17:35,799 --> 00:17:40,720
nation as Charles Dickens there's no

367
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:42,600
problem I we if we can have great

368
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,440
academic schools and great vocational

369
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,120
schools alongside them and put more

370
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,840
resources into the vocational schools

371
00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:49,080
because they all need more resources we

372
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,480
can be fair to everybody and we should

373
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:53,679
do it at 13 or 14 not not at 11 that's

374
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:56,400
probably too early well you said

375
00:17:53,679 --> 00:17:59,799
probably too early that was of course

376
00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:03,159
the separation of sheep from go Vats uh

377
00:17:59,799 --> 00:18:05,919
for uh for the best part of 100 years in

378
00:18:03,159 --> 00:18:10,320
this country there's no proposal that I

379
00:18:05,919 --> 00:18:13,760
know of to defer the separation uh of

380
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:17,039
winners and losers uh any later than 11

381
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:20,880
but I'm against it on principle because

382
00:18:17,039 --> 00:18:25,799
I know because I was there when some

383
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:30,080
people took a path which ineluctably led

384
00:18:25,799 --> 00:18:32,919
to a rounder education and University

385
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:36,520
and other children took a path that

386
00:18:32,919 --> 00:18:39,240
ineluctably led to drudgery in a factory

387
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:41,400
not isembard Kingdom Brunell who by the

388
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:44,080
way was educated at a private school and

389
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:47,720
at one of our top universities but

390
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:50,799
drudgery assembly line work cleaning

391
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:55,000
digging holes that's what the other path

392
00:18:50,799 --> 00:18:57,400
led to not to uh engineering Excellence

393
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,360
because it was the kids that took the

394
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:02,080
path to perfection that did the

395
00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:03,480
engineering Excellence well yeah it's

396
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,840
interesting what you're saying of course

397
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,640
we what we're really saying is that we

398
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:10,480
should have uh a system which is

399
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:12,520
meritocratic so that people young people

400
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:15,280
should uh get go into the employment

401
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:17,000
eras so which they're best suited now I

402
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,360
I've done all sorts of jobs in my life

403
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,280
and I've I've been to Second modern

404
00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:21,559
school as well and I recognize what

405
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,840
you're saying of course a lot of

406
00:19:21,559 --> 00:19:26,360
people's jobs can seem drudgery to us

407
00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,280
not necessarily drudgery to people who

408
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:29,600
are doing the jobs of course because my

409
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:32,440
father work worked on the factory floor

410
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:35,320
for 35 years so did mine and and believe

411
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,679
me drudgery was was the middle name

412
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,240
they're quite proud of the fact they D

413
00:19:36,679 --> 00:19:40,880
call for 35 years we mustn't demean

414
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,159
people because they do meet I'm not

415
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:45,360
demeaning them I'm standing up for them

416
00:19:43,159 --> 00:19:48,159
it's you it's you who wants to leave

417
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:50,919
them on the scrap heap of drudgery I'm

418
00:19:48,159 --> 00:19:52,760
not demeaning them I'm championing them

419
00:19:50,919 --> 00:19:54,760
okay I thought you demean them I think I

420
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,240
think you know you mustn't put down

421
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,799
people who are doing these jobs we

422
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,640
mustn't put down people doing jobs which

423
00:19:57,799 --> 00:20:01,520
they may well enjoy we don't want we

424
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:04,840
want people to be suited to the jobs

425
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:08,640
Chris nobody enjoys drudgery some have

426
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:10,039
to endure it in order to stay alive look

427
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,720
what I'm telling what I'm saying to you

428
00:20:10,039 --> 00:20:14,159
is people don't find a drudgery you it's

429
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,679
really depending on the person I'm sure

430
00:20:14,159 --> 00:20:17,240
you would find things certain things

431
00:20:15,679 --> 00:20:19,120
judgy so would I but other people don't

432
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,080
necessarily find it judgy I would find

433
00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:22,120
it really hard perhaps to be a to be a

434
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,039
surgeon because I don't know anything

435
00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:26,039
about the job people like to do a job

436
00:20:24,039 --> 00:20:27,760
which they can feel they can do well you

437
00:20:26,039 --> 00:20:29,559
know and sometimes people can do what

438
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,960
can say highly qualified job well others

439
00:20:29,559 --> 00:20:32,159
can't do the highly qualified job well

440
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,360
but they want to earn a living they want

441
00:20:32,159 --> 00:20:35,919
to do something which you might consider

442
00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:38,400
to be dread it's not dread to work in a

443
00:20:35,919 --> 00:20:40,240
coal mine if you want to do that job

444
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:43,320
would chance would be a fine thing

445
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:47,120
except Mrs that closed them all but but

446
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:51,640
Chris Chris if this is such a good idea

447
00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:54,200
yeah why did a succession of Labor and

448
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:57,600
conservative governments including the

449
00:20:54,200 --> 00:21:00,559
aforementioned Mrs thater not do

450
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,760
it well this the point is you know that

451
00:21:00,559 --> 00:21:05,799
what actually happened is that in the

452
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:07,360
1970s I suppose the uh the educational

453
00:21:05,799 --> 00:21:09,200
world the educational establishment we

454
00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:11,720
called it really took control of the

455
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,240
situation Margaret thatd can actually

456
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,600
Clos more grammar schools than anybody

457
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,880
else I don't think it was in her

458
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,200
instincts to do that I think she would

459
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,279
like to have kept them open but local

460
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:21,960
authorities whom she was dealing with

461
00:21:19,279 --> 00:21:23,320
were indeed taken over by people who

462
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,000
have your opinion and thought they were

463
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,799
they were they were iniquitous and they

464
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:30,720
were so she smashed the miners but but

465
00:21:27,799 --> 00:21:33,159
faded uh the possibility of some Social

466
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:35,240
Democrat in an education Authority

467
00:21:33,159 --> 00:21:38,480
somewhere come on come on Chris you're

468
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:41,159
pulling my leg she she didn't do it

469
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:44,080
because she knew that it cut across the

470
00:21:41,159 --> 00:21:45,640
grain of the opinion of the great

471
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,919
majority of people and this is my last

472
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:50,360
point to you if I may yeah th how can

473
00:21:47,919 --> 00:21:52,159
this get through a good number of Tories

474
00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:54,880
are against it they've only got a

475
00:21:52,159 --> 00:21:56,760
majority of 12 they have no majority in

476
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:59,039
the Lords it's not going to go through

477
00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,799
is it I'll tell you something you we've

478
00:21:59,039 --> 00:22:02,799
got a situation where we've got the

479
00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:04,720
lowest social mobility in the world

480
00:22:02,799 --> 00:22:06,960
we've got a disastrous situation only

481
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,520
the bright kids sorry only the well off

482
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,120
kids going to private school and those

483
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,679
who can afford to buy homes next to good

484
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:13,799
schools are getting a good education and

485
00:22:11,679 --> 00:22:16,120
you're absolutely right they haven't got

486
00:22:13,799 --> 00:22:18,080
a hope in Hell the series of made like

487
00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:19,960
everybody else who's confronted the cas

488
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,520
establ is going to be beaten and the

489
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,720
kids from ordinary workingclass

490
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,360
backgrounds are going to stay in the

491
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,039
sink where they are we need to do

492
00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:28,159
something to help them you and I need to

493
00:22:26,039 --> 00:22:30,120
get together cuz I know we're different

494
00:22:28,159 --> 00:22:32,960
in many anyways but we want to help kids

495
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:34,559
from inner city areas like myself okay

496
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,880
Chris MCG govern thanks for coming on as

497
00:22:34,559 --> 00:22:39,679
I say top marks to you for showing up

498
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:43,799
chairman of the campaign for real

499
00:22:39,679 --> 00:22:45,919
education what do you think 0844

500
00:22:43,799 --> 00:22:49,720
499

501
00:22:45,919 --> 00:22:52,159
1,844 499

502
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:54,520
1000 he's a weapon of mass discussion

503
00:22:52,159 --> 00:22:57,120
and he's back on your radio the mother

504
00:22:54,520 --> 00:23:00,200
of all talk shows with George Galloway

505
00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:02,080
on talk radio we'll get you talking now

506
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,960
coming in the next hour we talk to a

507
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:06,760
specialist in counterterrorism about how

508
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,880
we've managed to avoid a terrorist

509
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:11,799
attack in this country in recent years

510
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:15,440
following a number of arrests this week

511
00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:17,440
also the best of Ian Lee is coming up at

512
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:20,400
1 p.m. and tomorrow morning from 8:00

513
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:22,080
a.m. Penny Smith catches you up on the

514
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:25,120
new stories you might have missed this

515
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:27,840
week Amy Schindler is in to talk about

516
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:31,000
her new Play Burning Bridges and Penny

517
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:35,080
talks to author Louise candish all that

518
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:36,760
is from 8 a.m. and only on talk radio

519
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:40,240
0844

520
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:44,159
499 1000 is the number if you want to

521
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:46,919
call me you can email me or you can uh

522
00:23:44,159 --> 00:23:49,600
text me you can tweet me at George

523
00:23:46,919 --> 00:23:52,760
Galloway or at talk radio as a very

524
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:55,559
large number of you have done somebody

525
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,760
resounding in the Twitter name the Juke

526
00:23:55,559 --> 00:24:00,919
says is there no way of ridding us of

527
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:04,520
these tories grammar schools it's code

528
00:24:00,919 --> 00:24:08,279
for another form of elitism and Thomas

529
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:10,320
Mr Tom says maybe good to take us back

530
00:24:08,279 --> 00:24:14,600
conservatives are the only party with a

531
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:19,120
backbone and it shows in PM's

532
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:21,640
questions fedo bul says Wally's own CLP

533
00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:24,520
is backing jezza just proves what a

534
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:27,440
trojan horse Wally really is this is a

535
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:30,840
report that actually by more than 2 to

536
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:33,919
one uh the members of Wally's own

537
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:37,799
constituency labor party are actually

538
00:24:33,919 --> 00:24:40,679
supporting Jeremy Corbin and farla Hines

539
00:24:37,799 --> 00:24:42,880
says why is there never any discussion

540
00:24:40,679 --> 00:24:45,320
about the majority of population this

541
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:47,919
country who were not

542
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:51,159
anti-german well none of us were

543
00:24:47,919 --> 00:24:54,120
anti-german far we were just

544
00:24:51,159 --> 00:24:57,200
anti-nazi uh Norma is on the line from

545
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:59,320
Bristol on the grammar schools Norma my

546
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:03,279
blood's boiling at this where do you

547
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:06,360
stand oh well I just think it's I don't

548
00:25:03,279 --> 00:25:08,960
like this idea that because kids come

549
00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:11,960
from poor working class families they

550
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:15,480
can't do well I mean I've got three

551
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:18,640
granddaughters growing up now one's just

552
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:21,039
got a first class degree from Buckingham

553
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:23,320
University the other one is working

554
00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:25,640
part-time on a degree and the other

555
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:28,320
one's going to become a nurse they went

556
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:30,640
to an ordinary comprehensive School

557
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:33,760
their father is a bus conductor bus

558
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:37,080
driver and um they they really they've

559
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:39,720
got two bedroomed house and it's a

560
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:42,320
comprehensive school and they worked

561
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:45,360
hard and I just think at this sort of

562
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:48,840
feeling that oh dear I know there are

563
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:52,120
problems but I just sort of think I'm so

564
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:55,679
proud of the situation that my family

565
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:58,799
were in and what they've done and

566
00:25:55,679 --> 00:26:00,480
ordinary comprehensive education so I

567
00:25:58,799 --> 00:26:03,320
just wanted to say that really well

568
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:05,799
you've said it very well my father was a

569
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:08,279
factory worker an assembly line worker

570
00:26:05,799 --> 00:26:11,799
my mother worked in a fish canery and I

571
00:26:08,279 --> 00:26:14,760
grew up to be a presenter on talk sport

572
00:26:11,799 --> 00:26:18,960
but the point is Norma whatever problems

573
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:21,039
we've got with uh numeracy literacy

574
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:24,720
whatever problems we've got with social

575
00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:27,799
Mobility will not be improved by going

576
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:30,320
back to the 1950s by giving a small

577
00:26:27,799 --> 00:26:34,159
number of children a super duper

578
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:38,799
education whilst the others lag behind

579
00:26:34,159 --> 00:26:41,200
in so-called vocational streams yep am I

580
00:26:38,799 --> 00:26:43,200
right well you are yes I mean I have got

581
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,880
another theory but it's um probably

582
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,880
haven't got time to give it to you of

583
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:50,480
course I do of course I do well you

584
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:52,960
probably won't agree with me um I think

585
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:55,279
comprehensives by and large are quite

586
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,559
good if you work hard and you've got a

587
00:26:55,279 --> 00:27:00,080
bit of discipline and and if you haven't

588
00:26:57,559 --> 00:27:02,279
got that abil say well you know there

589
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:05,120
nothing wrong with that but there is a

590
00:27:02,279 --> 00:27:07,919
section of people who are extremely

591
00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:12,159
clever and I think that I don't know

592
00:27:07,919 --> 00:27:14,200
five six% should be streamed off to do

593
00:27:12,159 --> 00:27:17,960
what they can with the big things in

594
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:21,679
life that we need that that that's the

595
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:24,640
elitist uh system that we had in this

596
00:27:21,679 --> 00:27:27,000
country for a very very long time Norma

597
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,760
thanks for calling let's go to Fraser in

598
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,399
Bolton go ahead fr

599
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:33,039
good evening George good evening to you

600
00:27:31,399 --> 00:27:35,080
first of all like to say I enjoyed very

601
00:27:33,039 --> 00:27:38,200
much your Winston Church bit earlier

602
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:41,440
because I know I much of a a big your

603
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,679
love and uh Devotion to Winston Church

604
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,559
which I always like to throw in the face

605
00:27:42,679 --> 00:27:48,880
of shall we say the drive by

606
00:27:45,559 --> 00:27:51,960
grade yes but actually was about the 11

607
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:54,519
plus thing now the key in that is the 11

608
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:57,840
this is insane you you're asking

609
00:27:54,519 --> 00:28:01,799
children each you know yeah starting

610
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:05,320
from 10 so kids will be preparing for an

611
00:28:01,799 --> 00:28:08,039
exam whilst they are 10 which will

612
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:10,080
decide the rest of their lives well I've

613
00:28:08,039 --> 00:28:12,200
got an 11-year-old son and the idea of

614
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:16,279
that having taken place in the last year

615
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:19,159
is frankly insane and ludicrous and I

616
00:28:16,279 --> 00:28:20,720
would you know as you know George I

617
00:28:19,159 --> 00:28:22,679
received your DVD and it was absolutely

618
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:26,799
fabulous oh I'm glad you liked it yes

619
00:28:22,679 --> 00:28:29,720
yes fantastic and um in the same package

620
00:28:26,799 --> 00:28:33,480
I also produced Al I didn't produce I

621
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:35,080
got Michael M's uh film where shall we

622
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,880
invade next oh yeah I've not seen that

623
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,760
yet is it good I I thoroughly recommend

624
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:41,880
it um and one of the things he takes

625
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:44,200
back to America only he didn't uh was

626
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:48,039
the education system in

627
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:49,679
Finland which every school every school

628
00:28:48,039 --> 00:28:51,919
doesn't matter which neighborhood they

629
00:28:49,679 --> 00:28:54,000
are has the same amount of equipment

630
00:28:51,919 --> 00:28:56,720
same amount of space the same teachers

631
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:59,480
on the same salaries and it's completely

632
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:02,000
open the education is

633
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,840
banned so everybody has to mix with each

634
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,080
other so the rich the children of the

635
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:08,080
rich decision makers get to meet you

636
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:11,200
know the factory workers creates a

637
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:13,840
better Society but also what happens in

638
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:16,399
the secondary school streamers um they

639
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:18,679
start to identify as what happens in

640
00:29:16,399 --> 00:29:21,519
real life about the age of 14 15 what

641
00:29:18,679 --> 00:29:23,760
people's you know natural Slants towards

642
00:29:21,519 --> 00:29:26,480
are and they have get tailored classes

643
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,679
for them yeah it's Common Sense there's

644
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,840
nothing wrong with that and every

645
00:29:27,679 --> 00:29:32,360
everybody at the same school let's make

646
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:35,279
every school a grammar school I would

647
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:37,440
ask that you you're the bright guy you

648
00:29:35,279 --> 00:29:38,919
took the right my life that's exactly

649
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,200
what the point he was making was the

650
00:29:38,919 --> 00:29:42,559
government said well there will be no

651
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:45,039
private schools everybody goes to the

652
00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:47,640
same school and every school doesn't

653
00:29:45,039 --> 00:29:51,039
matter where you are is the same class

654
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:53,000
size teacher budget supplies budget

655
00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:55,960
everything

656
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:58,240
exactly I mean it's not rocket science

657
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:01,080
if if our teachers were better look

658
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:04,600
after better motivated were less

659
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:06,720
burdened by bureaucracy and task after

660
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:09,159
task being lumped on them if our

661
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:12,399
children all got the same amount of

662
00:30:09,159 --> 00:30:15,279
money spent on them as the children at a

663
00:30:12,399 --> 00:30:18,440
grammar school or even better at a

664
00:30:15,279 --> 00:30:20,360
private school do uh then our outcomes

665
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,640
would be would be much better I don't

666
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:25,919
hate private schools I go to speak at

667
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:27,640
them all the time and I can see uh the

668
00:30:25,919 --> 00:30:30,760
what the parents are getting for their

669
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:34,159
money the teachers are paid much more

670
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:36,360
each kid has a spend an average spend on

671
00:30:34,159 --> 00:30:38,840
them which is much more they've got

672
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,919
better facilities better Playing Fields

673
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:43,440
I'm not against these private schools I

674
00:30:40,919 --> 00:30:45,360
want every school to be like that that's

675
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:47,000
that's it's common sense you invest how

676
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,919
many times do we hear we invest in the

677
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,159
future you're not investing in the

678
00:30:48,919 --> 00:30:54,240
future with the device of Education

679
00:30:51,159 --> 00:30:56,720
policies right frza thanks for calling

680
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:59,720
son good to I'm glad you like the film

681
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:02,080
uh for me say I've never been prouder to

682
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:05,240
be from old them than when watching the

683
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:08,000
audience of Question Time blank Wally to

684
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:10,480
take a selfie with Corbin it was uh

685
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:12,880
quite funny I must say I have to take a

686
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:16,159
break for some capitalist messages but

687
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:18,200
let me give you this phone number 0844

688
00:31:16,159 --> 00:31:21,080
499

689
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:23,880
1000 listener comrades of the World

690
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:26,559
Unite the mother of all talk shows with

691
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:31,039
George Galloway on talk radio we'll get

692
00:31:26,559 --> 00:31:33,639
you talking we will we will 0844 499

693
00:31:31,039 --> 00:31:36,000
1000 that's the number to call as

694
00:31:33,639 --> 00:31:39,360
Richard in leads has just done and he's

695
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:41,039
on the air go ahead Richard hi George uh

696
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:45,000
massive fan thank you mate what do you

697
00:31:41,039 --> 00:31:46,600
think of the arguments about grammar um

698
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:49,200
well I've been through both grammar and

699
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,320
state school um and I can tell you I I

700
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,279
don't believe there's a massive

701
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:55,159
difference in the teaching uh the the

702
00:31:52,279 --> 00:31:56,919
only difference I found was um the fact

703
00:31:55,159 --> 00:32:00,000
that uh the grammar school had like a

704
00:31:56,919 --> 00:32:01,679
great swimming pool things like that um

705
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,760
the state school was was no different

706
00:32:01,679 --> 00:32:05,919
with teaching just there was more more

707
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:08,159
students that's it well that of course

708
00:32:05,919 --> 00:32:11,440
that's part of the problem Richard that

709
00:32:08,159 --> 00:32:13,519
the class sizes in the secondary moderns

710
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,919
are bigger than they are in the grammars

711
00:32:13,519 --> 00:32:19,600
but the most important difference and I

712
00:32:15,919 --> 00:32:23,440
speak as one who experienced it is that

713
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:26,480
you have snob value you have Prestige

714
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:28,440
value you have Elite value if you went

715
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,440
to the grammar school therefore you're

716
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,279
more likely to get into the university

717
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:35,120
you're more likely to have your

718
00:32:32,279 --> 00:32:38,159
application plucked out and shortlisted

719
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:42,360
than if you went to Bogard secondary

720
00:32:38,159 --> 00:32:46,000
modern.com uh and the prestige the

721
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:49,159
elitism that is in that system is

722
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:51,120
precisely its point and it's precisely

723
00:32:49,159 --> 00:32:52,639
for those reasons that we should never

724
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:55,799
go back to that

725
00:32:52,639 --> 00:32:58,760
rich right I'm I'm not 100% sure I agree

726
00:32:55,799 --> 00:33:00,919
with you on that um I I I feel like more

727
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:04,000
like the um the people in state school

728
00:33:00,919 --> 00:33:06,440
look down on me in a way because I'd

729
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,039
gone to grammar school um as if I

730
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,240
thought they were that I was better than

731
00:33:08,039 --> 00:33:13,360
them yeah well that that that happened

732
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,960
to me we used to get stoned by the uh

733
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,960
other kids at the secondary mon they

734
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:20,960
used to throw stones at us calling us

735
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:23,679
snobs uh but of course this was a Creed

736
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:27,039
deur from them if I may say to somebody

737
00:33:23,679 --> 00:33:31,080
called Richard this was uh this was a

738
00:33:27,039 --> 00:33:34,360
cry of pain from them because they knew

739
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:38,000
that us with our fancy fancy uniforms

740
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:41,200
and caps were beginning a process that

741
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:43,960
would leave them way way

742
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:47,320
behind Okay well I I wasn't I wasn't

743
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:50,279
better than them um I understand they

744
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:52,840
might have thought that um but I

745
00:33:50,279 --> 00:33:55,600
definitely uh I wasn't I didn't grow up

746
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:59,000
more uh in a richer class I was I was

747
00:33:55,600 --> 00:34:00,840
middle class at best um I just got lucky

748
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,480
basically and there were people at state

749
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:06,279
school that were more well off than

750
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:08,000
myself um and I don't feel like I ever

751
00:34:06,279 --> 00:34:11,679
got

752
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:16,079
um a help in later life because of where

753
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:18,079
I went to at my private school um he

754
00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:20,760
never helped me in college uh I never

755
00:34:18,079 --> 00:34:22,320
went to University but um I don't feel

756
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,800
like did you say private school or

757
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:26,839
grammar did you go to a private school

758
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:29,720
uh private school grammar the same it

759
00:34:26,839 --> 00:34:33,639
was um yeah no a private school you pay

760
00:34:29,720 --> 00:34:36,200
for all private schools are fee paying

761
00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:39,800
schools grammar schools are

762
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:41,919
not right okay oh dear you didn't learn

763
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:44,520
much at your private school well

764
00:34:41,919 --> 00:34:47,280
obviously not yeah Richard thanks for

765
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:50,159
calling all the best to you son now uh

766
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,919
enough said uh tweets yeah but George

767
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:54,480
tutors are much more affordable than

768
00:34:51,919 --> 00:34:58,160
mortgages near good schools that's a

769
00:34:54,480 --> 00:35:01,359
fair point Nu said that's a fair point

770
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:03,640
but that's why instead of doing this we

771
00:35:01,359 --> 00:35:06,720
have to do something different I'm not

772
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:09,880
arguing here for the status qu we have

773
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:13,079
an underfunded underpowered

774
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:14,160
comprehensive education system and we

775
00:35:13,079 --> 00:35:17,040
have an

776
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:19,280
unacceptable gap between some

777
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:22,599
comprehensive schools and other

778
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:26,079
comprehensive schools thus you get this

779
00:35:22,599 --> 00:35:29,359
cluster of people moving into houses

780
00:35:26,079 --> 00:35:32,200
near the best comprehensive schools but

781
00:35:29,359 --> 00:35:35,960
there's no excuse for some comprehensive

782
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:38,560
schools being so much better than other

783
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:43,720
comprehensive schools now there are

784
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:46,720
special issues arise in areas uh where

785
00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:49,640
there are high levels of poverty where

786
00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:52,359
there are high levels of children uh for

787
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:55,000
whom English is a second language well

788
00:35:52,359 --> 00:35:57,640
there are high levels of uh numbers of

789
00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:00,319
children where English is not the main

790
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:04,280
main language being taught at home but

791
00:36:00,319 --> 00:36:06,880
that needs more expenditure that needs a

792
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:10,160
special effort to bring those

793
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:14,720
comprehensive schools up to the level of

794
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:18,480
those uh that Ned is talking about let's

795
00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:20,200
hear from Steve in Nan go ahead Steve uh

796
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,920
good evening George how are you I'm

797
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,880
Greatful to speak to you again thank you

798
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:26,319
my

799
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,920
friend well I think we've seen the next

800
00:36:26,319 --> 00:36:30,560
prime minister of this country if you

801
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:33,240
saw question time last night oh I

802
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:35,160
thought I thought uh Corbin Corbin gave

803
00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:37,480
him a comprehensive drubbing didn't you

804
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:39,720
think yeah but it's not only that it's

805
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:42,960
the way he interacted with the audience

806
00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:45,800
as well I think he was P pure class pure

807
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:47,680
class yeah it was like it was like um

808
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,960
football supporters of a certain age

809
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,880
will recall it was like watching Jim

810
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:56,720
Baxter on the ball strolling through the

811
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:58,599
opposition playing K up he he was a

812
00:36:56,720 --> 00:37:00,079
different class

813
00:36:58,599 --> 00:37:02,079
totally different class and if you can

814
00:37:00,079 --> 00:37:04,040
recall back to when he was going for the

815
00:37:02,079 --> 00:37:07,040
leadership in the first place they had

816
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:09,000
the big teli s in in the neon which is

817
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:11,160
just up the road from me George and he

818
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:14,280
was exactly the same then and that was

819
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:16,480
with um I Cooper and Liz Kendall and all

820
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:19,079
them that was up against a better class

821
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:21,839
of opposition yeah and he was exactly

822
00:37:19,079 --> 00:37:25,040
the same George yeah exactly pure class

823
00:37:21,839 --> 00:37:27,240
and if you compare that to what you saw

824
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:30,319
from Teresa may in prime minister's

825
00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:32,560
question question s this week it just

826
00:37:30,319 --> 00:37:34,680
shows you the difference between the two

827
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,880
he's got to be our next prime minister I

828
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:39,720
think she's very limited you know she's

829
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:43,960
very very limited she's and by the time

830
00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:45,760
the uh general election comes in 2020

831
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:49,160
after things like this grammar school

832
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:51,839
debacle and no doubt other problems in

833
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:55,720
the economy and in Parliament and over

834
00:37:51,839 --> 00:37:58,560
brexit and so on she'll be an opponent

835
00:37:55,720 --> 00:38:01,200
that Corbin can defeat

836
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:03,119
very very easily I mean I mean you

837
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,520
Overlook at Prim min's questions this

838
00:38:03,119 --> 00:38:09,000
week George I mean what did you get he

839
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:10,680
was asking about social housing he and

840
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:13,000
it was all laughed off by these

841
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:15,560
privileged Silver Spoons she pretty much

842
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:17,960
avoided every question she was asked

843
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:20,960
reaching for a series of like

844
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,640
cringeworthy weak pre-written put Downs

845
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,319
she's not even very good she's not even

846
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,800
very good she's I mean she needs a new

847
00:38:24,319 --> 00:38:28,440
script writer she she needs more than

848
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:31,119
that George I think

849
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:33,400
I think she's very very weak in in that

850
00:38:31,119 --> 00:38:35,359
regard and as you know and this with the

851
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,119
grammar schools George I mean what are

852
00:38:35,359 --> 00:38:39,040
you going to get if you have that and do

853
00:38:37,119 --> 00:38:40,440
you think that's got anything to do with

854
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,400
covering up with this pressure for

855
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:45,880
brexit do you think I think it's a

856
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:49,560
diversion it's well it may not be but it

857
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:51,280
seems to me such a a suicide mission uh

858
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:54,040
that I can't think of a better

859
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:56,200
explanation for it it can't go through

860
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:58,359
Steve she cannot get it through

861
00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:00,480
Parliament neither house

862
00:38:58,359 --> 00:39:02,079
she's I mean the way they're talking is

863
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,599
if they've got a massive majority or

864
00:39:02,079 --> 00:39:05,720
something it's not going to happen GE

865
00:39:03,599 --> 00:39:09,640
they've got a majority of 12 and I could

866
00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:11,800
name you right now at least 20 Tory MPS

867
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:15,160
that will not vote for it so it's a dead

868
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:17,440
duck yeah absolutely a dead do yeah

869
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:21,319
Steve thanks for calling my friend Steve

870
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:24,400
in Nan uh a good friend of the show Alan

871
00:39:21,319 --> 00:39:26,480
Bud uh writes in Via Twitter why change

872
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:29,760
the education system again leave it

873
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:33,200
alone and get on with sorting brexit

874
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:35,240
that's you know the point we've had

875
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:37,599
reorganization after

876
00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:40,000
reorganization we've had reorganization

877
00:39:37,599 --> 00:39:43,040
of the education system of the Health

878
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:47,079
Service but what we haven't had is

879
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:50,119
enough financial investment in the

880
00:39:47,079 --> 00:39:53,800
education service or for that matter in

881
00:39:50,119 --> 00:39:56,800
the uh Health Service Steve Ki raises a

882
00:39:53,800 --> 00:40:00,040
good point on Twitter does Mrs may have

883
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:02,640
a Mand date to carry this through and of

884
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:05,599
course she does not as was pointed out

885
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:08,240
by baroness Smith the labor leader in

886
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:12,400
the House of Lords this very afternoon

887
00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:15,599
this was not in the Tory Manifesto it

888
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:20,359
represents by anybody's standards a

889
00:40:15,599 --> 00:40:24,160
major major uturn in the life of our

890
00:40:20,359 --> 00:40:28,000
youngest people and there is no mandate

891
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:29,599
for it not a vote was cast for it

892
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,960
now that's quite a serious

893
00:40:29,599 --> 00:40:34,160
constitutional matter and the House of

894
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:38,400
Lords at the very least if not the House

895
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:41,400
of Commons will take a very dim view of

896
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:44,800
that I believe let me go on with more uh

897
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:47,000
tweets Lizzy says absolutely quote we

898
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:50,079
will make room for poorer children

899
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:53,520
unquote equals admitting that grammar

900
00:40:50,079 --> 00:40:56,160
schools inherently favor the better off

901
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:58,880
that's absolutely correct well send now

902
00:40:56,160 --> 00:41:02,720
n said says who does the drudgery do we

903
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:06,440
not need drudgery anymore yes of course

904
00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:09,000
we do although frankly by the middle of

905
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:11,440
this Century which is not that long

906
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:14,560
distant most of the drudgery will be

907
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:17,560
done by artificial intelligence the rest

908
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:19,960
of us will be writing and reading poetry

909
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:22,680
I hope if we get the right kind of

910
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:26,359
society by then Timmy the dog says

911
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:28,920
social Mobility is a function of social

912
00:41:26,359 --> 00:41:33,200
equality Britain has poor social

913
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:35,440
Mobility because it has great inequality

914
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:39,359
very well said Timmy and of course that

915
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:42,960
is the point we live in a grotesquely

916
00:41:39,359 --> 00:41:48,599
unequal society and the numbers of

917
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:51,680
people who move from the poor from the

918
00:41:48,599 --> 00:41:56,520
ordinary workingclass people into making

919
00:41:51,680 --> 00:42:00,599
it big in Academia or politics or uh or

920
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:04,440
uh banking or the law and so on is far

921
00:42:00,599 --> 00:42:07,520
far too small as any fool knoweth John

922
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:09,680
Joe says the schools don't really matter

923
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:13,040
it's the effort that the students put in

924
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:16,000
although school is a factor not big well

925
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:19,319
I'm with you uh up to a point John Joe I

926
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:22,680
mean uh I speak as a father of many

927
00:42:19,319 --> 00:42:27,359
children by the grace of God and I

928
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:32,640
believe that it's the atmosphere at home

929
00:42:27,359 --> 00:42:37,040
the inculcation of learning for its own

930
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:40,920
sake of reading of searching for

931
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:44,920
knowledge and beauty and truth that has

932
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:48,200
to start at the Home in the family and

933
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:52,079
uh if you inculcate your children with

934
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:55,359
that then they'll survive much uh in the

935
00:42:52,079 --> 00:42:57,640
school system and go on to do well that

936
00:42:55,359 --> 00:43:02,839
is after all what happened to

937
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:05,680
uh me I grew up in a house where

938
00:43:02,839 --> 00:43:10,400
no middle class or private school

939
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:14,040
educated child could have been in a more

940
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:17,359
inquiring inquisitive environment

941
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:21,599
whenever I asked my parents anything at

942
00:43:17,359 --> 00:43:24,280
all they told me look it up in your

943
00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:26,520
encyclopedia and they had bought me a

944
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:29,480
volume from a traveling salesman door

945
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:33,440
too Arthur me I remember them well

946
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:36,920
Arthur me's encyclopedia dark red wine

947
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:39,280
colored uh books and they'd stand over

948
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:41,680
me while I looked it up in the

949
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:44,000
encyclopedia now Google is much quicker

950
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:47,000
than that but I'm not sure that the

951
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:50,359
Googled information stays in your mind

952
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:52,760
quite as long let me take one more tweet

953
00:43:50,359 --> 00:43:54,440
before the break uh David says George

954
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:56,720
the fact that Maggie is pushing grammar

955
00:43:54,440 --> 00:44:01,800
schools is enough for me I remember the

956
00:43:56,720 --> 00:44:03,839
11 and plus no going back well uh time

957
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,960
for one more Lizzie Fletcher I went to

958
00:44:03,839 --> 00:44:08,200
grammar school and loved it but my

959
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:12,599
sister and brothers who didn't pass the

960
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:14,760
11 plus are still upset with me now

961
00:44:12,599 --> 00:44:18,640
that's a very good point you know that

962
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:22,800
you're leaving children behind we should

963
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:26,119
be striving for a society where no child

964
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:29,839
is Left Behind where no one is Left

965
00:44:26,119 --> 00:44:33,599
Behind where everyone does the best that

966
00:44:29,839 --> 00:44:37,400
they can and helps through the taxation

967
00:44:33,599 --> 00:44:41,000
system and in many other ways those who

968
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:44,640
are not able to keep up that's the

969
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:47,920
definition of a society isn't it it's

970
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:52,880
certainly a definition of the society

971
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:57,440
for which I myself have striven all of

972
00:44:52,880 --> 00:45:00,559
my life this is the mother of all talk

973
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:03,280
shows I'm George Galloway and this of

974
00:45:00,559 --> 00:45:05,400
course is talk radio here for another

975
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:10,319
two hours I

976
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:14,079
am across the UK online and On Da a

977
00:45:10,319 --> 00:45:18,599
Radio Star is Born you're going to love

978
00:45:14,079 --> 00:45:21,319
talk radio talk radio what's not to love

979
00:45:18,599 --> 00:45:25,760
talk radio the mother of all talk shows

980
00:45:21,319 --> 00:45:27,680
0844 499 1000 that's the number to call

981
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:30,319
we're discussing grammar we're

982
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:33,800
discussing terrorism we're discussing

983
00:45:30,319 --> 00:45:38,680
Churchill and Corbin and

984
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:40,839
Trump across the UK online and On Da the

985
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:43,280
mother of all talk shows with George

986
00:45:40,839 --> 00:45:45,880
Galloway on talk radio we'll get you

987
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:48,040
talking listen up comrades of the World

988
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:50,440
Unite he's a weapon of mass discussion

989
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:52,680
and he's back on your radio get ready

990
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:54,160
for a revolutionary rumble on your radio

991
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:57,480
with the original George of the

992
00:45:54,160 --> 00:46:00,000
political jungle Galloway celebrate hat

993
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:02,559
the mother of all talk shows with George

994
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:05,119
Galloway come have a go if you think

995
00:46:02,559 --> 00:46:07,839
you're hard enough get it on the radio

996
00:46:05,119 --> 00:46:10,359
station that gives power to the people

997
00:46:07,839 --> 00:46:11,960
talk radio we'll get you

998
00:46:10,359 --> 00:46:13,480
talking

999
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:17,359
0844

1000
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:20,400
499 1,000 that's the number to call

1001
00:46:17,359 --> 00:46:24,319
we'll be talking about terrorism and the

1002
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:27,240
dangers our country face from bombers

1003
00:46:24,319 --> 00:46:30,839
and other terrorist acts and and the

1004
00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:33,250
police are doing a wonderful job but

1005
00:46:30,839 --> 00:46:37,079
will it be enough to keep us

1006
00:46:33,250 --> 00:46:39,920
[Music]

1007
00:46:37,079 --> 00:46:42,400
safe call me hav go if you think you're

1008
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:45,240
hard enough to get it the mother of all

1009
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:46,960
talk shows with George Galloway on talk

1010
00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:49,920
radio we'll get you

1011
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:53,400
talking every single day the police are

1012
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:57,319
arresting someone in Britain on terror

1013
00:46:53,400 --> 00:47:00,800
related charges it has been a long time

1014
00:46:57,319 --> 00:47:04,800
since a successful terrorist operation

1015
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:07,040
was mounted here our police are doing a

1016
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:10,520
great job our

1017
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:13,079
counterterrorism police are I believe at

1018
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:16,760
The Cutting Edge of such counter

1019
00:47:13,079 --> 00:47:19,839
terrorism in the world we're helped of

1020
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:22,280
course by being an island it's not so

1021
00:47:19,839 --> 00:47:25,599
easy for the

1022
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:28,000
ill-intentioned to cross our borders

1023
00:47:25,599 --> 00:47:30,280
though that of course does not save us

1024
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:33,480
from those who've been born or are

1025
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:36,920
living already within our own borders

1026
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:39,960
who wish to harm innocent people for

1027
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:43,680
political purposes which is the

1028
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:47,400
definition of terrorism or ought to be

1029
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:50,640
the intelligence Services now greatly

1030
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:54,079
inflated in size and their budget

1031
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:58,000
commensurately increased are also doing

1032
00:47:54,079 --> 00:48:01,319
a good job but they could do better in

1033
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:04,319
my opinion sometimes they do things that

1034
00:48:01,319 --> 00:48:08,160
increase the danger of terrorism rather

1035
00:48:04,319 --> 00:48:11,440
than reduce that danger H there's no

1036
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:15,559
doubt that there are people out to hurt

1037
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:19,520
us I argued as just one of the reasons

1038
00:48:15,559 --> 00:48:22,000
why our policy objectively of

1039
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:25,760
encouraging people from all over the

1040
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:29,359
world to go and fight and make Jihad in

1041
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:32,760
Syria as we have had done in the 1980s

1042
00:48:29,359 --> 00:48:34,720
in Afghanistan was a policy that was

1043
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:37,400
doomed to

1044
00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:41,000
disaster because if these people

1045
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:43,960
succeeded then a long dark night would

1046
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:47,319
descend upon the country in which they

1047
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:49,960
had succeeded and if they failed well

1048
00:48:47,319 --> 00:48:53,760
they'd all be dressed up with nowhere to

1049
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:56,359
go and I was once fortuitously for me

1050
00:48:53,760 --> 00:49:00,040
though not for him trapped in a lift

1051
00:48:56,359 --> 00:49:02,599
with William heg imagine how he felt as

1052
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:06,760
the lift shuddered to a halt with just

1053
00:49:02,599 --> 00:49:08,119
me and him in it and I told him William

1054
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:10,280
you've been wrong

1055
00:49:08,119 --> 00:49:13,920
before in fact you've been wrong all

1056
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:16,760
your life but you've never been in

1057
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:22,960
before but your

1058
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:25,319
policy of arming terrorism in Syria and

1059
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:28,359
creating a climate in

1060
00:49:25,319 --> 00:49:30,880
which radic I alized

1061
00:49:28,359 --> 00:49:35,119
extremized Muslims in Britain and

1062
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:40,000
elsewhere will head there to fight is a

1063
00:49:35,119 --> 00:49:45,119
disastrously insane policy anyway we

1064
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:49,400
remain in a state of very high alert a

1065
00:49:45,119 --> 00:49:53,280
terrorist attack is virtually certain

1066
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:57,240
say those tasked with looking after us

1067
00:49:53,280 --> 00:50:00,280
and each time we thwart one of these

1068
00:49:57,240 --> 00:50:04,079
terrorist plots then the chances are

1069
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:06,440
we've gotten off uh just in time which

1070
00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:10,520
doesn't mean that the police are

1071
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:14,559
necessarily going to catch the next cell

1072
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:18,160
of Fanatics who are determined to wreak

1073
00:50:14,559 --> 00:50:20,640
havoc amongst our people so let's talk

1074
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:23,599
to a specialist in

1075
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:26,440
counterterrorism Simon trundle and ask

1076
00:50:23,599 --> 00:50:27,400
him how have we been able to get by so

1077
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:30,119
far

1078
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:32,480
without a major attack Simon thanks for

1079
00:50:30,119 --> 00:50:35,319
joining us good evening George what

1080
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:38,680
would be the answer to that question I

1081
00:50:35,319 --> 00:50:42,559
think a mixture of look good

1082
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:44,480
fortune and um a very concentrated

1083
00:50:42,559 --> 00:50:46,400
intelligence campaign to try and

1084
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:48,760
identify individuals who are radicalized

1085
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:51,680
but as Sir Bernard Hogan house said

1086
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:54,280
recently we will not get all of them we

1087
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:55,680
will not detect all of them in advents

1088
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,319
and therefore a lot of work has gone

1089
00:50:55,680 --> 00:51:00,119
into preparing for what we'll do

1090
00:50:57,319 --> 00:51:02,400
immediately after an attack do you think

1091
00:51:00,119 --> 00:51:05,000
it's uh is it sufficient the work that's

1092
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:06,040
been done for what would happen after in

1093
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:09,240
your

1094
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:12,200
view I think a lot of the work um where

1095
00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:15,520
they've done multi- agency training and

1096
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:17,440
exercises is is uh very very much better

1097
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:21,799
than than it was should we say in the

1098
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:23,480
'90s um now we've got regular exercising

1099
00:51:21,799 --> 00:51:27,319
with the police and fire and ambulance

1100
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:29,400
and support services so that uh you know

1101
00:51:27,319 --> 00:51:31,240
resources are on site of course it does

1102
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:33,359
depend on where the terrorist attack is

1103
00:51:31,240 --> 00:51:36,040
people will fall into the idea that

1104
00:51:33,359 --> 00:51:38,640
it'll be London or possibly Manchester

1105
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:40,160
Birmingham but what if it's norfol which

1106
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:42,200
is a bit further geographically from

1107
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:45,880
other places what if it's a a smaller

1108
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:48,559
rural town uh you know a farmers market

1109
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:51,760
then naturally we're going to be pushed

1110
00:51:48,559 --> 00:51:55,480
to try and get resources there are we

1111
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:59,319
looking at the uh special danger of what

1112
00:51:55,480 --> 00:52:04,040
we might call the Bombay style of attack

1113
00:51:59,319 --> 00:52:06,319
uh of seizing somewhere teenic or iconic

1114
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:09,040
and uh trying to hold hostages there

1115
00:52:06,319 --> 00:52:11,319
trying to hold out there drawing the

1116
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:14,119
cameras and the media's attention across

1117
00:52:11,319 --> 00:52:18,680
the world is that the most likely uh

1118
00:52:14,119 --> 00:52:22,640
kind of danger or some lone wolf type of

1119
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:25,839
primitive uh attack with with a knife uh

1120
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:28,880
or or or with a with blunt instruments

1121
00:52:25,839 --> 00:52:30,319
wh which in on that range Simon are the

1122
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,640
most likely

1123
00:52:30,319 --> 00:52:34,359
dangersous the the impossible task of

1124
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:37,640
the police and Security Services nobody

1125
00:52:34,359 --> 00:52:40,079
else have is that you cannot rank either

1126
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:41,680
of those potentially as one higher than

1127
00:52:40,079 --> 00:52:43,440
the other because you could say you

1128
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:45,520
could look at Kenya and say look at what

1129
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:47,520
happened in the Nairobi shopping center

1130
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,960
um armed multiple attackers marauding

1131
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:51,480
through a shopping center for hours um

1132
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:54,040
shooting people who were who they found

1133
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:56,079
hiding initially killing a lot of people

1134
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,520
and then you go back to somebody in

1135
00:52:56,079 --> 00:52:59,359
France

1136
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:01,680
a lone individual who targets and

1137
00:52:59,359 --> 00:53:04,000
identifies two members of the police man

1138
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:05,880
and woman um and attacks them and kills

1139
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:08,359
them in a home nothing more than a knife

1140
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:10,160
so we can't actually sit there and go I

1141
00:53:08,359 --> 00:53:12,280
think the knife is more is more likely

1142
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:15,240
to happen yes you can get hold of a

1143
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:17,839
knife much easier you can go to bnq or

1144
00:53:15,240 --> 00:53:19,760
any other store and just buy one um

1145
00:53:17,839 --> 00:53:22,000
getting hold of weapons a little more

1146
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:25,160
difficult a lot more difficult but not

1147
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:27,880
impossible so we could be looking at a

1148
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:29,400
loan Act shooter that's somebody who's

1149
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:31,680
got a shotgun somebody's got a gun who

1150
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:35,040
will do it h and but as soon as you take

1151
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:37,200
it from that up to a a group of people

1152
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:39,079
who are planning an assault on a major

1153
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:41,319
shopping center and trying to hold it

1154
00:53:39,079 --> 00:53:43,520
and contain it for a period of time then

1155
00:53:41,319 --> 00:53:46,280
that's a bigger operation and

1156
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:48,359
potentially could be detected with the

1157
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:51,599
security resource we have but the ones

1158
00:53:48,359 --> 00:53:53,599
we cannot really detect and have extreme

1159
00:53:51,599 --> 00:53:55,559
difficulty in detecting without some

1160
00:53:53,599 --> 00:53:58,480
Community Le intelligence is the lone

1161
00:53:55,559 --> 00:54:00,760
individual who has decided to pledge

1162
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:03,720
their loyalty and carry out an attack at

1163
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:07,599
the first upper chy it's a Vindication

1164
00:54:03,720 --> 00:54:10,200
of our uh our anti-gun culture uh in

1165
00:54:07,599 --> 00:54:12,599
this country isn't it because of course

1166
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:14,839
uh terrible damage can be done uh by

1167
00:54:12,599 --> 00:54:16,880
someone with a knife or even with a

1168
00:54:14,839 --> 00:54:20,920
shotgun but with a shotgun you've only

1169
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:24,960
got two shots uh with a knife you can be

1170
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:26,960
overwhelmed by others but in countries

1171
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:30,520
uh on the European mainland in North

1172
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:35,160
America where the presence of automatic

1173
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:39,119
weapons uh in huge gigantic UND undable

1174
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:43,160
numbers uh the possibility of terrorist

1175
00:54:39,119 --> 00:54:45,000
Carnage is much greater isn't it it is

1176
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:47,280
um we mustn't be too complacent because

1177
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:50,520
we do know that from evidence of some of

1178
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:52,799
the drug related deaths um and gang on

1179
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:55,000
gang deaths in London that you know and

1180
00:54:52,799 --> 00:54:57,160
other cities that automatic machine

1181
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:59,960
pistols have appeared that other weapons

1182
00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:02,240
appear but thankfully they're the Rarity

1183
00:54:59,960 --> 00:55:04,119
um you can imagine as you said in a

1184
00:55:02,240 --> 00:55:07,640
country where somebody like in America

1185
00:55:04,119 --> 00:55:10,920
where Thea was able to buy two weapons

1186
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:13,160
byy hundreds of rounds of ammunition um

1187
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:15,760
you know they had the wherewithall um on

1188
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:17,720
on France they smuggled the weapons in

1189
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,880
they believe and they held them there

1190
00:55:17,720 --> 00:55:20,200
and they were brought probably brought

1191
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:23,039
in from Eastern Europe they were brought

1192
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:25,599
in Romania they suspect that um here in

1193
00:55:23,039 --> 00:55:29,119
the UK it just goes to show we have to

1194
00:55:25,599 --> 00:55:30,520
be very very Vigilant at ports um and at

1195
00:55:29,119 --> 00:55:32,280
airport well not at airports because I

1196
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:35,039
don't think you be to easily smuggle

1197
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:37,079
weapons AB boort but on P ports uh and

1198
00:55:35,039 --> 00:55:40,119
boats and small boats landing and that's

1199
00:55:37,079 --> 00:55:41,720
where a stream of the whole safety of

1200
00:55:40,119 --> 00:55:44,480
the country is actually going to fall

1201
00:55:41,720 --> 00:55:46,119
back on the members of the public and

1202
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:48,440
you'll see these campaigns coming out

1203
00:55:46,119 --> 00:55:50,119
saying uh Coastal watch if you're a

1204
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,880
regular Walker on the coast and you see

1205
00:55:50,119 --> 00:55:54,160
a boat landing late at night or you see

1206
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:56,559
something suspicious phone the police

1207
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:59,640
let them know if you if you hear an

1208
00:55:56,559 --> 00:56:01,839
attack happening run hide tell don't

1209
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:03,720
become don't go towards the noise get

1210
00:56:01,839 --> 00:56:07,240
away from it as quickly as possible and

1211
00:56:03,720 --> 00:56:11,319
now you're looking at at Major retail

1212
00:56:07,240 --> 00:56:13,839
Network or or or locations asking May

1213
00:56:11,319 --> 00:56:16,200
for advice saying how could we cope with

1214
00:56:13,839 --> 00:56:18,359
a Maring arm to Packer when on Saturday

1215
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:20,599
this this Saturday coming we'll have 40

1216
00:56:18,359 --> 00:56:22,799
to 50,000 people on our premises what's

1217
00:56:20,599 --> 00:56:24,200
the best that we can do to to try and

1218
00:56:22,799 --> 00:56:26,640
get them out and that's that's training

1219
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:28,079
staff in evacuation and making sure all

1220
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:29,720
the entrances are clear making sure

1221
00:56:28,079 --> 00:56:31,359
people can find their way to entrances

1222
00:56:29,720 --> 00:56:33,720
so there's a whole lot that we need

1223
00:56:31,359 --> 00:56:35,520
people to do in support of what the

1224
00:56:33,720 --> 00:56:40,359
police Security Services and others can

1225
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:43,960
do you you raise uh a question uh that I

1226
00:56:40,359 --> 00:56:47,240
think will be occurring to uh some of uh

1227
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:50,400
the audience this evening do we have the

1228
00:56:47,240 --> 00:56:52,960
numbers of people uh I mean you

1229
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:55,119
mentioned police fire and ambulance I

1230
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:58,799
don't know about the ambulance except I

1231
00:56:55,119 --> 00:57:00,880
know there's a lot of demotivation de de

1232
00:56:58,799 --> 00:57:04,000
demoralization amongst many Health

1233
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:07,880
Service Personnel uh but I know that

1234
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:10,839
fire stations and fire engines and firen

1235
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:14,319
have been relentlessly cut back and cut

1236
00:57:10,839 --> 00:57:17,680
back do we have enough people at the

1237
00:57:14,319 --> 00:57:19,799
ports do we have enough Customs officers

1238
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:22,440
do we have enough coast

1239
00:57:19,799 --> 00:57:26,880
guards I I think the answer to most of

1240
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:30,039
those questions is in the negative Simon

1241
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:31,720
it isly and and that's why in recent

1242
00:57:30,039 --> 00:57:33,799
months George you'll have seen a series

1243
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:36,599
of Articles whether it was the head of a

1244
00:57:33,799 --> 00:57:39,400
a c border um you know borders are

1245
00:57:36,599 --> 00:57:42,760
custom saying we need more officers we

1246
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:44,760
need vastly more individuals on the

1247
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:47,359
ground we need more specially trained to

1248
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:49,200
search Vehicles Etc um and the same

1249
00:57:47,359 --> 00:57:51,000
applies all the way across the Emergency

1250
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:53,520
Services you know we we with with

1251
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:55,400
cutbacks and centralization of ambulance

1252
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:57,400
resources and call out points rather

1253
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:59,480
than having local ambulances and and

1254
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:02,240
staging ambulances along points on the

1255
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:04,760
motorway where they can be S nor South s

1256
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:06,400
nor Southeast or west at short notice is

1257
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:08,559
is is a good way of looking at it from a

1258
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:10,359
financial perspective you know if

1259
00:58:08,559 --> 00:58:12,760
somebody wants to cut cut cut and cut

1260
00:58:10,359 --> 00:58:14,720
but eventually you reach the point where

1261
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:16,720
you do an exercise and you realize that

1262
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:18,720
when you do the exercise that there is

1263
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:21,480
no way that you can provide the

1264
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:23,599
resources for a multiple instent so let

1265
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:25,760
alone for one if we have one it'll be

1266
00:58:23,599 --> 00:58:27,839
difficult to to meet one major event

1267
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:29,720
with all all the resources that'll be

1268
00:58:27,839 --> 00:58:32,520
difficult enough but what if we have

1269
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:34,400
somebody planning to do multiple events

1270
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:36,319
all at the same time similar to Paris

1271
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:38,400
exactly the same as Paris where you had

1272
00:58:36,319 --> 00:58:41,440
the St the fronts then you had a

1273
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:43,240
marauding armed attack on restaurants

1274
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:46,319
and bars and then you had the nightclub

1275
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:48,680
they drew people uh and resources away

1276
00:58:46,319 --> 00:58:51,280
incredibly fast and therefore we have to

1277
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:54,000
keep on adding resources in exercises to

1278
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:56,640
say if this happens uh if we've all

1279
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:58,559
committed to event number one how do we

1280
00:58:56,640 --> 00:59:00,280
respond to Vietnam do we have to keep

1281
00:58:58,559 --> 00:59:02,920
back reserves and I think it's

1282
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:04,319
inevitable that the some of the cuts and

1283
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:06,319
some of the plans that said number of

1284
00:59:04,319 --> 00:59:08,599
years ago you know we can we can survive

1285
00:59:06,319 --> 00:59:10,640
in normal circumstances with this number

1286
00:59:08,599 --> 00:59:12,599
of people but they have to be reversed

1287
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:15,400
some of them and there is already

1288
00:59:12,599 --> 00:59:17,079
recruitment for more armed armed

1289
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:19,000
officers in in metabolan police and

1290
00:59:17,079 --> 00:59:21,640
across the country um there's more

1291
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:23,720
recruitment for Border Force but this

1292
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:25,000
all takes time you don't just recruit

1293
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:27,039
somebody and they're instantly trained

1294
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:29,960
it's going to take us a couple of years

1295
00:59:27,039 --> 00:59:31,240
to get up to a a full a better level

1296
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:34,079
than we are at the moment and I think at

1297
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:36,200
the moment the resources we have they're

1298
00:59:34,079 --> 00:59:37,440
working incredibly well George they they

1299
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:40,480
you know and I know about the

1300
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:42,680
demoralization among the paramedics uh

1301
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:44,400
my my son-in-law is a paramedic I know

1302
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:46,440
about the working times and the shifts

1303
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:48,839
but he was but his attitude is if

1304
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:50,880
something bad happens I'll be there of

1305
00:59:48,839 --> 00:59:52,640
course you know if I'm in leave I'll be

1306
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:54,240
there and I think the same happens with

1307
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:56,039
foreign emergency and look what happens

1308
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,400
when we call for people to give blood

1309
00:59:56,039 --> 00:59:59,319
members of the public come so I think

1310
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:02,359
there will be a general call out to all

1311
00:59:59,319 --> 01:00:04,319
medical paramedic fir police you know

1312
01:00:02,359 --> 01:00:05,640
you're off leave you're back in let's

1313
01:00:04,319 --> 01:00:07,520
let's solve this together and I think

1314
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:10,240
that's the way we have to respond Simon

1315
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:12,480
trundle a specialist in counterterrorism

1316
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:16,440
thanks very much for joining us on the

1317
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:18,720
mother of all talk shows 0844 499 1000

1318
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:22,440
what do you think about what you've

1319
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:24,839
heard so far uh later in the second half

1320
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:26,799
of this hour we'll be talking about a

1321
01:00:24,839 --> 01:00:29,280
man who had to deal

1322
01:00:26,799 --> 01:00:33,160
with the terrorist attack on an

1323
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:36,039
unimaginable level the Blitz and the

1324
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:38,599
Nazi aggression against uh the whole

1325
01:00:36,039 --> 01:00:42,119
world in the second world war we'll be

1326
01:00:38,599 --> 01:00:45,160
talking to Lord Alan Watson libd Lord

1327
01:00:42,119 --> 01:00:50,920
and author of Churchill's legacy two

1328
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:53,640
speeches to save the world 0844 499

1329
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:55,599
1000 controversial conversation and

1330
01:00:53,640 --> 01:01:00,079
cuttingedge current affairs comment with

1331
01:00:55,599 --> 01:01:02,799
the torious B I G G the mother of all

1332
01:01:00,079 --> 01:01:04,839
talk shows with George Galloway on talk

1333
01:01:02,799 --> 01:01:06,960
radio listen this guy's a admare he's

1334
01:01:04,839 --> 01:01:09,760
not a great guy folks you're getting it

1335
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:11,520
later Trump okay I'm George Gallow this

1336
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:13,960
is the mother of all talk shows of

1337
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:18,599
course on talk radio every Friday night

1338
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:21,280
between 7 and 10 my number is 0844 499

1339
01:01:18,599 --> 01:01:24,160
1000 and if you call that you could be

1340
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:26,680
on the air just like Laura in central

1341
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:29,240
London Laura Welcome to the the show

1342
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:32,400
thank you very much for taking my call

1343
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:36,400
um if I may talk about um Theresa May

1344
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:38,559
and um Clinton um with Theresa May I

1345
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:42,160
just find it incredible that the

1346
01:01:38,559 --> 01:01:43,520
daughter of a VI vica um her father

1347
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:48,119
worked

1348
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:51,599
in uh was the vical something clergy of

1349
01:01:48,119 --> 01:01:54,559
a hospital as well so he must have seen

1350
01:01:51,599 --> 01:01:58,880
how um having a poorer living a poorer

1351
01:01:54,559 --> 01:02:01,680
life affects your quality of life um and

1352
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:03,520
that of your family but I think when she

1353
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:06,440
came into Power didn't she say that she

1354
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:09,440
wanted a more equal Britain and fairer

1355
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:12,160
Britain um but grammar schools won't

1356
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:14,760
create a fairer Britain and as you said

1357
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:17,160
George why why isn't every school a

1358
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:20,200
grammar school exactly I mean isn't that

1359
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:24,480
the isn't that the Target that we should

1360
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:27,079
be aiming at that's right and um if you

1361
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:29,760
come from a family uh where there are a

1362
01:02:27,079 --> 01:02:32,119
number of children and all of them go to

1363
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:35,720
grammar school bar

1364
01:02:32,119 --> 01:02:38,720
one what would that one child be

1365
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:40,039
subjected to by the other siblings the

1366
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:43,559
mocking the

1367
01:02:40,039 --> 01:02:46,279
taunting um the inequality that you know

1368
01:02:43,559 --> 01:02:48,599
the bullying that would happen there is

1369
01:02:46,279 --> 01:02:51,680
absolutely no doubt about that that you

1370
01:02:48,599 --> 01:02:54,160
are if you go to the secondary modern

1371
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:57,440
then there are many in society who

1372
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:59,799
regard you as the the huers of wood and

1373
01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:02,279
the drawers of water and that the

1374
01:02:59,799 --> 01:03:04,880
children who go to the grammar school

1375
01:03:02,279 --> 01:03:07,960
are the leaders and the innovators and

1376
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:11,359
the scientists and the that's right the

1377
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:13,760
the the top notchers of the society in

1378
01:03:11,359 --> 01:03:15,720
the future how can that be a good thing

1379
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:17,599
yeah and they are groomed to be

1380
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:22,079
confident and to know that they're going

1381
01:03:17,599 --> 01:03:23,359
to go places in their life exactly um

1382
01:03:22,079 --> 01:03:26,039
right about

1383
01:03:23,359 --> 01:03:29,079
Clinton um I'm I'm not sure if you're

1384
01:03:26,039 --> 01:03:33,240
aware but a few days ago she actually in

1385
01:03:29,079 --> 01:03:36,000
one of her speeches said that um well

1386
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:39,920
she was alleging that Russia hacked the

1387
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:43,200
DNC emails yes you know and that it was

1388
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:45,720
Russia that gave them to WikiLeaks um so

1389
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:48,240
she's made that allegation and in the

1390
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:51,160
same speech she said that if she gets

1391
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:55,319
into power or when she gets into Power

1392
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:56,480
any country that she deems um has been

1393
01:03:55,319 --> 01:03:59,039
hacking

1394
01:03:56,480 --> 01:04:02,279
America or the American government or

1395
01:03:59,039 --> 01:04:05,680
whatever uh she'll um use military

1396
01:04:02,279 --> 01:04:08,480
action in other words she'll go to war

1397
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:12,680
against Russia and any other country

1398
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:15,839
that she thinks has hacked them yeah uh

1399
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:19,760
this is why I I describe this contest as

1400
01:04:15,839 --> 01:04:21,920
been between Godzilla 1 and Godzilla 2

1401
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:26,079
that's right there there is no doubt at

1402
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:29,359
all that she is a dangerous she's a D

1403
01:04:26,079 --> 01:04:32,720
armed and dangerous person absolutely I

1404
01:04:29,359 --> 01:04:35,000
mean George tell me how many wars would

1405
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:37,440
she be content with because we've

1406
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:39,760
already got a few going on yeah exactly

1407
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:42,760
yeah and let's let's pick a let's start

1408
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:45,880
a war with Russia at least Ronald Reagan

1409
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:48,920
was only joking when he said it most

1410
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:52,520
people are afraid that Hillary Clinton

1411
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:54,559
is not joking no she's not joking and um

1412
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:58,079
I don't know if you know but she and

1413
01:04:54,559 --> 01:05:00,520
Obama have been um promoting fracking

1414
01:04:58,079 --> 01:05:02,880
globally uh with the corporations the

1415
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:05,599
fracking corporations even though they

1416
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:08,920
know that several communities Across

1417
01:05:05,599 --> 01:05:11,760
America have have had their water

1418
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:14,599
poisoned by fracking so their

1419
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:17,319
communities are dying slowly of chronic

1420
01:05:14,599 --> 01:05:21,160
illness and they can't even afford to

1421
01:05:17,319 --> 01:05:24,279
pay for for medical insurance well I'll

1422
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:27,480
tell you what uh one of the new uh newly

1423
01:05:24,279 --> 01:05:30,200
announced uh Jeremy Urban policies of

1424
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:32,920
banning fracking will turn out to be a

1425
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:35,119
very popular policy indeed thanks for

1426
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:37,640
that Laura let's go to Spencer in

1427
01:05:35,119 --> 01:05:40,599
Chester on the grammar school issue

1428
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:43,039
Spencer welcome to the show hello George

1429
01:05:40,599 --> 01:05:44,359
um I'd like to say a few hours ago um I

1430
01:05:43,039 --> 01:05:47,039
would have agreed with you on grammar

1431
01:05:44,359 --> 01:05:48,680
schools but then since then I've I've

1432
01:05:47,039 --> 01:05:50,559
heard the point that we already do have

1433
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:53,319
a kind of selective education in this

1434
01:05:50,559 --> 01:05:55,359
country it's house prices I think London

1435
01:05:53,319 --> 01:05:56,440
has the highest house prices and the

1436
01:05:55,359 --> 01:05:59,480
highest

1437
01:05:56,440 --> 01:06:01,200
standard of schooling I think um not the

1438
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:03,359
grammar schools that we had in the 1950s

1439
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,920
or in Northern Ireland if we brought

1440
01:06:03,359 --> 01:06:06,960
back a different type of grammar school

1441
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:08,640
where they had quotas just just as we

1442
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:11,240
discriminate on a wealth basis when it

1443
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:13,559
comes to taxes if we did that with

1444
01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:15,440
grammar schools and say if x% of the

1445
01:06:13,559 --> 01:06:18,000
country is in the lowest bracket then

1446
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:20,799
you x% of your students have to be from

1447
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:22,440
that bracket as well I but then then it

1448
01:06:20,799 --> 01:06:24,880
wouldn't but then it wouldn't be a

1449
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:28,160
grammar school Spencer a grammar school

1450
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:31,920
is a schol at which you pass a test at

1451
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:35,680
the age of 11 proving in invest in in

1452
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:39,039
inverted commer proving that you are uh

1453
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:41,920
of sufficient cleverness and

1454
01:06:39,039 --> 01:06:44,559
intelligence and potential that you

1455
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:47,720
should be separated from your peers and

1456
01:06:44,559 --> 01:06:50,279
given an extra special education whilst

1457
01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:53,400
your peers get left behind that's what a

1458
01:06:50,279 --> 01:06:55,160
grammar school is that that was would be

1459
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:57,760
if you got x marks you'd get into the

1460
01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:59,839
grammar school if you said say from the

1461
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:01,720
bottom bracket you take the best X

1462
01:06:59,839 --> 01:07:04,000
number of students from that bracket and

1463
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:06,119
the number of students who aren't in the

1464
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:07,680
best X perent in that bracket or sent to

1465
01:07:06,119 --> 01:07:10,000
the other schools so it would be still

1466
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:11,200
be a selective form of Education it

1467
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:14,119
would just be a bit different from what

1468
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:16,480
we had in the 1950s but why should we do

1469
01:07:14,119 --> 01:07:19,200
it what what good will come of it

1470
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:21,359
Spencer well I think you can get a

1471
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:23,079
higher if you put the intelligent kids

1472
01:07:21,359 --> 01:07:24,880
together or the more intelligent kids

1473
01:07:23,079 --> 01:07:26,760
together you can get a higher standard

1474
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:28,119
of Education for those kids and if you

1475
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:30,039
had the bracket system I think that

1476
01:07:28,119 --> 01:07:32,680
would improve social Mobility but you

1477
01:07:30,039 --> 01:07:35,039
can do that in the same school you can

1478
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:38,079
have kids that are particularly gifted

1479
01:07:35,039 --> 01:07:41,559
at mathematics being streamed in the

1480
01:07:38,079 --> 01:07:44,680
state school system uh so that their

1481
01:07:41,559 --> 01:07:47,000
Brilliance in mathematics can uh can

1482
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:49,559
accelerate you don't have to send them

1483
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:52,760
to a separate school with a fancier

1484
01:07:49,559 --> 01:07:56,359
uniform with a fancier name and with the

1485
01:07:52,760 --> 01:08:00,920
prestige and Elite status that

1486
01:07:56,359 --> 01:08:03,319
inevitably widens the Gap in our

1487
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:05,160
society no because if you take it from

1488
01:08:03,319 --> 01:08:07,839
the bottom bracket it's not going to be

1489
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:10,599
a wider Gap I think you would have yes

1490
01:08:07,839 --> 01:08:13,079
you can do sets in schools but you can't

1491
01:08:10,599 --> 01:08:14,720
set art it's the attitude of the

1492
01:08:13,079 --> 01:08:16,159
students around you if you group The

1493
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:18,120
more intelligent kids together they're

1494
01:08:16,159 --> 01:08:20,359
going to have a more positive attitude

1495
01:08:18,120 --> 01:08:24,000
in school well I'm afraid the

1496
01:08:20,359 --> 01:08:26,799
relationship between uh uh intelligence

1497
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:28,960
and good behavior is not actually born

1498
01:08:26,799 --> 01:08:32,120
out in practice and what you are

1499
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:34,920
suggesting is not a grammar school and

1500
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:37,839
if it were uh then the grammar school

1501
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:42,400
idea would not now be being promoted by

1502
01:08:37,839 --> 01:08:45,640
Maggie May Spencer if my auntie had a

1503
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:49,520
beard she'd be my uncle thanks for

1504
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:52,159
calling talk radio and the mother of all

1505
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:54,719
talk shows now coming up after the break

1506
01:08:52,159 --> 01:08:57,520
Lord Alan Watson talks about his new

1507
01:08:54,719 --> 01:08:59,759
book Churchill's legacy two speeches to

1508
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:02,880
save the world and also of course the

1509
01:08:59,759 --> 01:09:06,640
best of Ian Lee coming up at 1 p.m. and

1510
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:09,400
Sunday morning from 8:00 a.m. catch Jake

1511
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:12,080
yap's unique look at the week's news

1512
01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:15,440
they try to understand ttip in what the

1513
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:18,199
hell is going on the Setters return and

1514
01:09:15,440 --> 01:09:21,719
their guest lecturer is Professor Peter

1515
01:09:18,199 --> 01:09:26,759
Aon all that and more from 8: a.m.

1516
01:09:21,719 --> 01:09:30,679
Sunday on talk radio now uh I know Lord

1517
01:09:26,759 --> 01:09:34,199
Alan Watson to be a master of History I

1518
01:09:30,679 --> 01:09:37,560
know him to be uh I think he won't blame

1519
01:09:34,199 --> 01:09:40,359
me for saying a partisan of Winston

1520
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:44,199
Churchill who like Lord Watson was once

1521
01:09:40,359 --> 01:09:47,159
upon a time a liberal though of course

1522
01:09:44,199 --> 01:09:50,040
Churchill was a Tory then a liberal and

1523
01:09:47,159 --> 01:09:55,000
then a Tory again he ratted on the

1524
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:56,040
Tories but he ratted and went back uh

1525
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:59,800
profess

1526
01:09:56,040 --> 01:10:01,880
uh Allan now Lord Allan Watson has

1527
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:06,120
produced an interesting new book a copy

1528
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:10,320
of which I have on my bedside table uh

1529
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:14,080
right at this moment um and it's true to

1530
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:16,960
say that I'm getting a very large amount

1531
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:19,880
of Twitter traffic that disagrees with

1532
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:21,600
me about Winston Churchill well you're

1533
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:24,280
going to have to listen to my

1534
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:27,840
conversation with Lord Watson to

1535
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:30,719
properly understand it and

1536
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:33,800
him the mother of all talk shows with

1537
01:10:30,719 --> 01:10:36,679
George Galloway on talk radio we'll get

1538
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:40,280
you talking now we couldn't get Tom

1539
01:10:36,679 --> 01:10:43,640
Watson over the last8 weeks or so the

1540
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:46,760
big ugly bear but we've got a better

1541
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:49,000
class of Watson he's Lord Alan Watson

1542
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:51,480
former president of the liberal

1543
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:54,520
Democrats four-time parliamentary

1544
01:10:51,480 --> 01:10:58,080
candidate from theirs he's a master

1545
01:10:54,520 --> 01:11:02,000
historian uh from Cambridge University

1546
01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:04,960
and he's also a Churchill buff he knows

1547
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:08,239
everything about Winston Churchill and

1548
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:10,000
he has identified two speeches after

1549
01:11:08,239 --> 01:11:13,640
leaving office in

1550
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:17,560
1945 that Churchill made at Fulton

1551
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:20,080
Missouri and in Zurich which changed the

1552
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:22,520
course of history not necessarily for

1553
01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:25,360
the better as we will discover in the

1554
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:27,840
course of this debate that I'm about to

1555
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:30,880
have with them but

1556
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:33,120
indisputably they changed the course of

1557
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:35,640
history his new book is called Church

1558
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:38,719
hills's legacy two speeches to Save the

1559
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:41,320
World published by Bloomsbury here and

1560
01:11:38,719 --> 01:11:43,560
in the United States and we're lucky to

1561
01:11:41,320 --> 01:11:46,400
have him on the line from lovely

1562
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:50,040
Somerset Lord Watson thanks for joining

1563
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:52,880
us well good to join you tell us uh

1564
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:55,040
first of all about the book tell us

1565
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:56,120
about these two speeches and why they

1566
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:59,159
were so

1567
01:11:56,120 --> 01:12:01,760
important well um they were important of

1568
01:11:59,159 --> 01:12:03,199
course uh geopolitically if you like but

1569
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:05,920
they were also very important for

1570
01:12:03,199 --> 01:12:07,760
Winston Churchill as a man because

1571
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:11,199
having lost office in

1572
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:14,239
45 uh he was captured by what was

1573
01:12:11,199 --> 01:12:17,239
famously known as the Black Dog mood and

1574
01:12:14,239 --> 01:12:20,639
he was seriously uh depressed about the

1575
01:12:17,239 --> 01:12:23,360
condition he found himself in uh he was

1576
01:12:20,639 --> 01:12:25,560
after all left the Potsdam Conference in

1577
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:27,120
order to return to the general election

1578
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:30,400
he didn't fight a very good general

1579
01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:31,600
election and he lost it resoundingly and

1580
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:34,280
found

1581
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:36,040
himself you know suddenly transformed

1582
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:38,360
from being one of the most powerful and

1583
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:40,760
important people in the world to being

1584
01:12:38,360 --> 01:12:42,560
leader of his Majesty's opposition in

1585
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:45,440
the House of Commons and it wasn't a

1586
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:47,360
transition that gave him any pleasure

1587
01:12:45,440 --> 01:12:50,360
and indeed it depressed him

1588
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:52,440
significantly and his restoration of his

1589
01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:55,600
own morale just before you leave that

1590
01:12:52,440 --> 01:12:59,000
didn't he actually say that he he should

1591
01:12:55,600 --> 01:13:01,239
rather have died than be in the position

1592
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:03,480
that you describe no that's exactly what

1593
01:13:01,239 --> 01:13:06,560
he said and um he said you know like

1594
01:13:03,480 --> 01:13:10,080
Franklin Roosevelt I should have died

1595
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:12,520
and uh he of course did not and he was

1596
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:15,920
um he also said to Lord Moran who was

1597
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:20,120
his doctor um the Flies are gathering on

1598
01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:22,520
the corpse uh he was that depressed and

1599
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:25,639
then he suddenly is presented with an

1600
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:28,639
opportunity which he hadn't foreseen

1601
01:13:25,639 --> 01:13:30,320
uh he's at Chartwell and uh his

1602
01:13:28,639 --> 01:13:32,880
assistant comes in and puts a letter in

1603
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:34,880
front of him and the letter is from a

1604
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:38,199
College Westminster College Fulton

1605
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:40,800
Missouri which was not famous in fact

1606
01:13:38,199 --> 01:13:43,080
relatively unknown and it's a pretty

1607
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:44,600
standard letter and it's uh offering him

1608
01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:48,040
an honory degree and saying will you

1609
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:49,880
come and speak you see and um he got

1610
01:13:48,040 --> 01:13:52,520
quite a lot of these letters of course

1611
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:55,560
but then he looked down the bottom of

1612
01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:57,679
the page and there in handwriting

1613
01:13:55,560 --> 01:14:00,400
from Harry Truman the new president of

1614
01:13:57,679 --> 01:14:04,040
the United States is this simple message

1615
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:06,719
which says this is uh a college a very

1616
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:10,360
good college in my own home state if you

1617
01:14:06,719 --> 01:14:12,760
come and speak I will introduce you I

1618
01:14:10,360 --> 01:14:15,440
will be there with you and Winston

1619
01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:18,920
Churchill immediately thinks what does

1620
01:14:15,440 --> 01:14:21,040
this mean this means 18 hours on the

1621
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:23,159
train with the new president of the

1622
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:26,320
United States right back in the center

1623
01:14:23,159 --> 01:14:29,679
of things so of course he accepts with

1624
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:33,320
alacrity and he makes this speech uh in

1625
01:14:29,679 --> 01:14:36,840
Fon Missouri the first of these two uh

1626
01:14:33,320 --> 01:14:40,280
Epoch making speeches really in

1627
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:43,920
1946 tell us how they were as it were

1628
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:47,159
heard I mean the audience of course

1629
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:48,760
nowadays uh I mean we could live stream

1630
01:14:47,159 --> 01:14:52,239
never mind Churchill you could live

1631
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:54,679
stream a speech by Tom Watson uh which

1632
01:14:52,239 --> 01:14:57,320
would uh by live streaming go around the

1633
01:14:54,679 --> 01:15:00,679
world none of that was available in

1634
01:14:57,320 --> 01:15:03,000
1946 no there was of course radio and

1635
01:15:00,679 --> 01:15:04,920
there was the printed media and

1636
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:09,199
Churchill knew a great deal about both

1637
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:11,639
those two media and uh in fact there was

1638
01:15:09,199 --> 01:15:13,960
a worldwide radio coverage of both

1639
01:15:11,639 --> 01:15:17,159
speeches the speech in Fulton Missouri

1640
01:15:13,960 --> 01:15:19,480
and the speech in Zurich and um the

1641
01:15:17,159 --> 01:15:21,480
atmosphere in Fulton was extraordinary

1642
01:15:19,480 --> 01:15:25,080
when he actually arrived there with the

1643
01:15:21,480 --> 01:15:28,560
president and they walked into this uh

1644
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:31,520
town and he gave his speech in the

1645
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:34,400
little University's gymnasium uh where

1646
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:37,880
incidentally I'm going to go later on

1647
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:40,199
this year and they've even resuscitated

1648
01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:44,159
the car that Winston Churchill and Harry

1649
01:15:40,199 --> 01:15:47,000
Truman uh went into the town it may even

1650
01:15:44,159 --> 01:15:50,239
raise the sap in your own veins well it

1651
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:52,679
does a bit you know it does a bit but it

1652
01:15:50,239 --> 01:15:55,080
certainly did for Churchill and he

1653
01:15:52,679 --> 01:15:58,440
called this speech originally the sen of

1654
01:15:55,080 --> 01:16:01,760
peace but uh it became retrospectively

1655
01:15:58,440 --> 01:16:05,159
known as the Iron Curtain Speech and the

1656
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:08,560
purpose of it in his mind was pretty

1657
01:16:05,159 --> 01:16:12,080
straightforward really uh he was very

1658
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:16,159
worried by The Return of the Americans

1659
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:17,760
by tens of thousands every week leaving

1660
01:16:16,159 --> 01:16:20,880
Europe and going back to the United

1661
01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:24,280
States because the European war was over

1662
01:16:20,880 --> 01:16:27,199
and he saw this as denuding the defense

1663
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:29,960
of Western in Europe given the

1664
01:16:27,199 --> 01:16:32,440
extraordinary um presence of the Red

1665
01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:36,159
Army in the middle of Europe uh 300

1666
01:16:32,440 --> 01:16:38,760
divisions and um he was very concerned

1667
01:16:36,159 --> 01:16:41,120
that Stalin's ambition would not

1668
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:43,480
actually stop simply in the Eastern

1669
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:45,080
sector of Berlin but would wish to

1670
01:16:43,480 --> 01:16:47,280
embrace the whole of Berlin and then

1671
01:16:45,080 --> 01:16:50,560
maybe go much further within Western

1672
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:53,639
Europe so his primary purpose was to

1673
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:58,040
alert American public opinion as he saw

1674
01:16:53,639 --> 01:17:00,880
it to the reality ities of Stalin and

1675
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:03,440
the Soviet position and so he says to

1676
01:17:00,880 --> 01:17:06,520
them you know it's not good old Uncle

1677
01:17:03,440 --> 01:17:09,679
Joe it's actually Stalin who has

1678
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:12,360
absolute power within the Soviet Union

1679
01:17:09,679 --> 01:17:15,239
and has extended that power over most of

1680
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:18,560
Eastern Central Europe and is poised to

1681
01:17:15,239 --> 01:17:22,440
take more so you've got to think again

1682
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:25,400
and his his answer is that there has to

1683
01:17:22,440 --> 01:17:28,280
be an alliance uh between the United

1684
01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:31,239
States and the United Kingdom but

1685
01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:34,639
basically a Western Alliance and it has

1686
01:17:31,239 --> 01:17:37,360
to use the breathing space that the

1687
01:17:34,639 --> 01:17:40,520
temporary Monopoly of an atomic bomb had

1688
01:17:37,360 --> 01:17:43,840
given the United States to send a very

1689
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:46,960
clear signal to Stalin that thus far but

1690
01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:49,280
no further and he was effectively

1691
01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:52,080
announcing uh the beginning of the Cold

1692
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:54,639
War wasn't he I think you could say that

1693
01:17:52,080 --> 01:17:56,880
and that's certainly how the Kremlin saw

1694
01:17:54,639 --> 01:17:59,199
it but it's also how American public

1695
01:17:56,880 --> 01:18:02,440
opinion soed so this speech was

1696
01:17:59,199 --> 01:18:05,600
immensely controversial and the roselt

1697
01:18:02,440 --> 01:18:07,880
family in particular were appalled by it

1698
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:10,400
and there were a lot of people who said

1699
01:18:07,880 --> 01:18:13,719
basically what is Churchill trying to do

1700
01:18:10,400 --> 01:18:17,760
he's trying to involve Us in some sort

1701
01:18:13,719 --> 01:18:20,560
of British Imperial plan uh the end

1702
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:23,719
result of which will be to make Stalin

1703
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:26,360
an enemy and not an ally uh he saw it

1704
01:18:23,719 --> 01:18:29,440
completely differently he his attitude

1705
01:18:26,360 --> 01:18:32,760
you know George to Russia was actually

1706
01:18:29,440 --> 01:18:34,960
very interesting because he had said in

1707
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:39,000
a toast in the Kremlin in

1708
01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:42,600
1942 uh that it is you the Russians who

1709
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:46,239
have torn the guts out of the na War

1710
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:49,199
Machine uh he had a huge admiration for

1711
01:18:46,239 --> 01:18:52,600
Russian courage and Russian ability but

1712
01:18:49,199 --> 01:18:54,480
he also had a deep concern about where

1713
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:57,679
their Ambitions and the Ambitions of

1714
01:18:54,480 --> 01:19:01,080
their leadership might take Europe and

1715
01:18:57,679 --> 01:19:03,639
he wanted to draw a line and so for him

1716
01:19:01,080 --> 01:19:06,639
fton is about drawing a line wouldn't

1717
01:19:03,639 --> 01:19:10,360
another way uh of putting that Lord

1718
01:19:06,639 --> 01:19:14,760
Watson be this that uh Churchill was a

1719
01:19:10,360 --> 01:19:20,239
lifelong hater of Communism and during

1720
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:25,000
the brief but crucial period uh in which

1721
01:19:20,239 --> 01:19:28,480
as he put it uh the uh if uh if Hitler

1722
01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:30,800
invaded hell uh I would have a favorable

1723
01:19:28,480 --> 01:19:33,760
thing or two to say about the devil in

1724
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:36,800
the House of Commons he recognized

1725
01:19:33,760 --> 01:19:39,639
almost uniquely the vital importance of

1726
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:42,880
an alliance with the Soviet Union the

1727
01:19:39,639 --> 01:19:45,239
the reli Reliance on the Red Army to

1728
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:47,679
tear the guts out of the Nazi war

1729
01:19:45,239 --> 01:19:52,040
machine but once the war was over he

1730
01:19:47,679 --> 01:19:55,239
reverted back to his habitual visceral

1731
01:19:52,040 --> 01:19:57,880
anti-communism well he was an anti-b

1732
01:19:55,239 --> 01:20:01,880
right and he always had been and he

1733
01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:03,920
believed that bolshevism um would do

1734
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:06,199
very little for the world and even less

1735
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:07,639
for Russia itself that that was his

1736
01:20:06,199 --> 01:20:09,960
position that's what he actually

1737
01:20:07,639 --> 01:20:12,040
emotionally and intellectually believed

1738
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:15,920
yeah he never made any secret of that

1739
01:20:12,040 --> 01:20:18,120
and uh he and Stalin would sometimes

1740
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:20,239
really joust almost about that because

1741
01:20:18,120 --> 01:20:23,480
Stalin was well aware of Churchill's

1742
01:20:20,239 --> 01:20:25,320
anti-bolshevism uh and Churchill was

1743
01:20:23,480 --> 01:20:29,320
under no Illusions about the nature of

1744
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:32,760
Stalin's rule so there is a sort of

1745
01:20:29,320 --> 01:20:35,360
there's a strange kind of mutual respect

1746
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:37,280
between these two uh which lasts the

1747
01:20:35,360 --> 01:20:41,080
whole of the course of the second world

1748
01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:43,360
war but what um what I think changed

1749
01:20:41,080 --> 01:20:46,040
Churchill's mind there were a number of

1750
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:48,760
specific things at the at the end but he

1751
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:52,320
was very concerned that

1752
01:20:48,760 --> 01:20:55,800
roselt uh was in his view I think being

1753
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:57,639
duped by Stalin and that the promises

1754
01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:59,280
that Stalin had made about free

1755
01:20:57,639 --> 01:21:01,639
Democratic choice of the form of

1756
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:04,360
government and so on in the countries

1757
01:21:01,639 --> 01:21:06,760
which were liberated from the Nazis but

1758
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:08,880
then in effect occupied by the Red Army

1759
01:21:06,760 --> 01:21:11,159
that these were not really worth the

1760
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:13,320
paper they were written on and in

1761
01:21:11,159 --> 01:21:15,239
particular uh that surfaces of the

1762
01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:19,040
Potsdam Conference of course which is

1763
01:21:15,239 --> 01:21:21,719
the last one of the two and incidentally

1764
01:21:19,040 --> 01:21:24,000
there is rather an amusing anecdote

1765
01:21:21,719 --> 01:21:26,520
about that last pot Stam conference

1766
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:28,760
because Churchill is suddenly ripped

1767
01:21:26,520 --> 01:21:31,080
from the top table in the world you know

1768
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:32,800
he's sitting there with President Truman

1769
01:21:31,080 --> 01:21:35,440
who's replaced Franklin Roosevelt of

1770
01:21:32,800 --> 01:21:38,400
course with Stalin and there's Churchill

1771
01:21:35,440 --> 01:21:40,840
and after just a very short number of

1772
01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:45,920
days he has to go back to London to face

1773
01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:49,159
the general election and Stalin uh

1774
01:21:45,920 --> 01:21:51,679
in almost fatherly sort of way says to

1775
01:21:49,159 --> 01:21:54,080
Churchill he doesn't say don't worry but

1776
01:21:51,679 --> 01:21:55,880
he says you know I have never lost an

1777
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:58,440
election

1778
01:21:55,880 --> 01:22:00,760
that had the benefit of being true Lord

1779
01:21:58,440 --> 01:22:03,960
Watson I have to take a short break for

1780
01:22:00,760 --> 01:22:05,960
some capitalist messages if you bear

1781
01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:08,560
with me I'd like to go on talking to you

1782
01:22:05,960 --> 01:22:11,000
after the break yes fine absolutely and

1783
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:13,880
we've got zerich to talk about we do a

1784
01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:17,560
speech on which uh I view with rather

1785
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:21,719
greater favor I guess

1786
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:23,239
so Georgie Galloway is back on the radio

1787
01:22:21,719 --> 01:22:25,840
Galloway

1788
01:22:23,239 --> 01:22:29,560
celebrate the mother of all talk shows

1789
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:31,080
with George Galloway on talk radio now

1790
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:35,440
this night in

1791
01:22:31,080 --> 01:22:38,639
1940 as indeed the last few nights and

1792
01:22:35,440 --> 01:22:41,760
more than 50 nights still to come

1793
01:22:38,639 --> 01:22:44,159
londoners in particular were being

1794
01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:46,520
blitzed bombarded

1795
01:22:44,159 --> 01:22:50,400
remorselessly thousands of our people

1796
01:22:46,520 --> 01:22:52,840
were killed many thousands were wounded

1797
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:55,199
uh perhaps as many as

1798
01:22:52,840 --> 01:22:58,120
200,000 but they never

1799
01:22:55,199 --> 01:23:00,920
surrendered and one of the reasons why

1800
01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:04,719
they never surrendered was because by

1801
01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:08,679
then they had a leader who was ready to

1802
01:23:04,719 --> 01:23:12,280
stand firm until he choked in his own

1803
01:23:08,679 --> 01:23:17,480
blood rather than surrender to the Beast

1804
01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:21,920
of Hitler fascism all of his crimes and

1805
01:23:17,480 --> 01:23:25,440
sins prior to that moment were expirated

1806
01:23:21,920 --> 01:23:29,800
in my view by that stand that he made

1807
01:23:25,440 --> 01:23:32,520
and it's concurrent conclusion that an

1808
01:23:29,800 --> 01:23:36,000
alliance with Stalin and with the Soviet

1809
01:23:32,520 --> 01:23:39,320
Union would be necessary desirable

1810
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:42,440
indispensable in defeating that fascist

1811
01:23:39,320 --> 01:23:45,040
Beast this

1812
01:23:42,440 --> 01:23:49,280
expiates this

1813
01:23:45,040 --> 01:23:51,679
washes the sins and crimes of his past

1814
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:53,920
in my view I'm well aware that not all

1815
01:23:51,679 --> 01:23:56,280
of you agree with me and my guest this

1816
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:58,440
evening Lord Lord Watson uh doesn't even

1817
01:23:56,280 --> 01:24:01,000
agree that all of those were crimes and

1818
01:23:58,440 --> 01:24:04,280
sins though I hope we'll be able to come

1819
01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:07,280
on to some of them but we're talking

1820
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:10,360
about Lord Watson's new book Churchills

1821
01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:14,159
legacy two speeches to save the world

1822
01:24:10,360 --> 01:24:16,040
both delivered in 1946 the first of

1823
01:24:14,159 --> 01:24:18,360
which we've already spoken in Fulton

1824
01:24:16,040 --> 01:24:21,320
Missouri which could be said to have

1825
01:24:18,360 --> 01:24:25,800
laid the tracks for the Cold War for

1826
01:24:21,320 --> 01:24:29,719
NATO uh for the iron curtain which he a

1827
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:34,239
phrase which he of course uh um uh

1828
01:24:29,719 --> 01:24:37,120
coined and which is now uh common place

1829
01:24:34,239 --> 01:24:39,960
in our language one of many actually

1830
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:42,040
that Churchill coined which have become

1831
01:24:39,960 --> 01:24:44,639
commonplace but let's move on Lord

1832
01:24:42,040 --> 01:24:47,960
Watson to the second of those speeches

1833
01:24:44,639 --> 01:24:51,280
tell us about the Zurich speech George

1834
01:24:47,960 --> 01:24:53,080
can I just make one comment there about

1835
01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:56,520
what you just said about

1836
01:24:53,080 --> 01:24:59,000
1940 which I think is very important in

1837
01:24:56,520 --> 01:25:03,719
understanding all of this Britain was

1838
01:24:59,000 --> 01:25:06,760
alone in 1940 yes uh the USSR joins the

1839
01:25:03,719 --> 01:25:09,520
war when Hitler attacks Russia the

1840
01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:12,280
United States joins the war when Japan

1841
01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:15,320
attacks Pearl Harbor there was this

1842
01:25:12,280 --> 01:25:17,719
absolutely critical period uh France

1843
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:20,639
having been defeated Continental Europe

1844
01:25:17,719 --> 01:25:22,840
having been occupied when actually it

1845
01:25:20,639 --> 01:25:25,119
was Churchill and Great Britain who

1846
01:25:22,840 --> 01:25:28,119
stood alone and changed the course of

1847
01:25:25,119 --> 01:25:30,239
history yeah now um when I was writing

1848
01:25:28,119 --> 01:25:33,080
this book two speeches to change the

1849
01:25:30,239 --> 01:25:35,480
world uh I was confronted of course by

1850
01:25:33,080 --> 01:25:38,920
an assumption that uh the great moment

1851
01:25:35,480 --> 01:25:41,080
in Churchill's life is 1940 and his

1852
01:25:38,920 --> 01:25:43,880
greatest contribution apart from his own

1853
01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:45,960
courage determination and skill was his

1854
01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:48,080
oratorical ability to communicate

1855
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:50,520
through the speeches that he made all

1856
01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:53,320
now World Famous of course iconic

1857
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:55,880
speeches and really did anything much

1858
01:25:53,320 --> 01:25:58,639
happen with Churchill after that in my

1859
01:25:55,880 --> 01:26:00,600
view and indeed in Churchill's view uh

1860
01:25:58,639 --> 01:26:05,000
the speeches he made in

1861
01:26:00,600 --> 01:26:09,119
1946 were of were as important in their

1862
01:26:05,000 --> 01:26:11,040
way as were the speeches he made in 1940

1863
01:26:09,119 --> 01:26:14,880
that first one which we've discussed

1864
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:17,920
just now Fulton Missouri uh he saw as

1865
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:20,280
critical in engaging the commitment of

1866
01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:22,920
the United States to the defense of

1867
01:26:20,280 --> 01:26:26,080
Western Europe the second speech he made

1868
01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:28,480
in Zurich was and let me just try and

1869
01:26:26,080 --> 01:26:31,520
explain that difference when Winston

1870
01:26:28,480 --> 01:26:35,600
Churchill went to the United States in

1871
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:38,360
1946 he had two missions one was to make

1872
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:40,320
that speech the fton Missouri speech the

1873
01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:42,880
other was to try and persuade the

1874
01:26:40,320 --> 01:26:44,880
Americans to reverse their decision to

1875
01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:48,000
end Len lease at the end of the second

1876
01:26:44,880 --> 01:26:50,679
world war and to extend lines of credit

1877
01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:53,520
to Britain which was bust and more

1878
01:26:50,679 --> 01:26:56,679
broadly to begin to actually commit

1879
01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:59,880
American res sources to the economic

1880
01:26:56,679 --> 01:27:01,280
restoration rebuilding of Western Europe

1881
01:26:59,880 --> 01:27:05,199
including Western

1882
01:27:01,280 --> 01:27:07,000
Germany now that uh in retrospect may

1883
01:27:05,199 --> 01:27:09,320
all seem pretty obvious stuff but

1884
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:11,400
actually was very controversial at the

1885
01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:14,920
time hugely and Churchill got nowhere

1886
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:16,560
with it uh absolutely nowhere I mean on

1887
01:27:14,920 --> 01:27:19,320
the hill he had all these contacts

1888
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:21,880
people he knew very influential people

1889
01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:24,960
and they basically said look Winston uh

1890
01:27:21,880 --> 01:27:27,719
come on uh Britain is bust Germany's

1891
01:27:24,960 --> 01:27:30,560
been destroyed France is on the edge of

1892
01:27:27,719 --> 01:27:33,639
political chaos and maybe U communist

1893
01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:36,960
government Italy is totally chaotic and

1894
01:27:33,639 --> 01:27:40,400
Spain is a fascist autocracy you know

1895
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:43,679
it's not worth a godamn dollar and

1896
01:27:40,400 --> 01:27:46,800
something in Churchill tells him maybe

1897
01:27:43,679 --> 01:27:49,320
his half American ancestry that if he's

1898
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:51,440
going to change the American attitude

1899
01:27:49,320 --> 01:27:54,440
towards restoring Europe not just

1900
01:27:51,440 --> 01:27:56,360
defending it restoring it actually the

1901
01:27:54,440 --> 01:27:58,040
Europeans have got to get their own act

1902
01:27:56,360 --> 01:28:01,480
together they have to do something

1903
01:27:58,040 --> 01:28:03,360
remarkable astonishing surprising and

1904
01:28:01,480 --> 01:28:04,719
that's what the zeric speeches about he

1905
01:28:03,360 --> 01:28:08,920
gets up

1906
01:28:04,719 --> 01:28:11,520
1946 6 months after Fulton Missouri uh a

1907
01:28:08,920 --> 01:28:14,520
time when the um the Newberg trials on

1908
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:17,159
the Nazi atrocities of Daily News uh

1909
01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:20,280
when the French are executing traitors

1910
01:28:17,159 --> 01:28:22,920
and collaborators and so on and he says

1911
01:28:20,280 --> 01:28:24,880
I am going to startle you and my

1912
01:28:22,920 --> 01:28:28,320
goodness he does because what he

1913
01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:32,320
proposes is a kind of United States of

1914
01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:36,840
Europe Led Led by a partnership between

1915
01:28:32,320 --> 01:28:40,199
France and Germany I mean it was quite

1916
01:28:36,840 --> 01:28:42,480
extraordinary and general Deo went

1917
01:28:40,199 --> 01:28:44,840
virtually apoplectic you know when he

1918
01:28:42,480 --> 01:28:47,320
heard and read the speech it was an

1919
01:28:44,840 --> 01:28:49,800
extraordinary thing so these two

1920
01:28:47,320 --> 01:28:52,040
speeches if you take them together

1921
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:56,400
startled astonished

1922
01:28:52,040 --> 01:28:57,960
outraged enraged people uh in throughout

1923
01:28:56,400 --> 01:29:00,880
the whole of the western world and

1924
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:03,520
indeed the Soviet Union but actually

1925
01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:07,280
they triggered a process which in one

1926
01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:09,280
case eventually leads to Nato and in the

1927
01:29:07,280 --> 01:29:12,080
other case triggers a process which

1928
01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:14,880
eventually through the Marshall Plan uh

1929
01:29:12,080 --> 01:29:17,199
leads to the cooperation between France

1930
01:29:14,880 --> 01:29:19,280
and Germany the coal and Steel Community

1931
01:29:17,199 --> 01:29:22,239
which eventually becomes the European

1932
01:29:19,280 --> 01:29:27,639
union now I listened to the Zurich

1933
01:29:22,239 --> 01:29:31,960
speech yes it was uh a feast of

1934
01:29:27,639 --> 01:29:34,639
intellect and oratory and even the

1935
01:29:31,960 --> 01:29:38,320
political line good word in the chilian

1936
01:29:34,639 --> 01:29:40,560
context yes it was it was also

1937
01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:43,440
politically correct I was a campaigner

1938
01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:46,280
as you know uh to leave the European

1939
01:29:43,440 --> 01:29:48,639
Union but I'd vote for a United States

1940
01:29:46,280 --> 01:29:51,080
of Europe because that would be a

1941
01:29:48,639 --> 01:29:54,440
democratically elected and

1942
01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:57,440
removable uh government we'd have a an

1943
01:29:54,440 --> 01:29:59,639
elected president a congress a senate we

1944
01:29:57,440 --> 01:30:03,119
have checks and balances and above all

1945
01:29:59,639 --> 01:30:06,159
the European Central Bank would be under

1946
01:30:03,119 --> 01:30:10,480
political control Democratic control um

1947
01:30:06,159 --> 01:30:12,679
it was uh a fantastic speech I I urge

1948
01:30:10,480 --> 01:30:16,679
every it's available on YouTube I urge

1949
01:30:12,679 --> 01:30:19,840
everyone to listen to it um you can't

1950
01:30:16,679 --> 01:30:23,560
imagine any British politician perhaps

1951
01:30:19,840 --> 01:30:27,040
except the and me making such a a speech

1952
01:30:23,560 --> 01:30:30,000
today they they simply don't have the

1953
01:30:27,040 --> 01:30:34,000
the wherewith all am I right Lord Watson

1954
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:36,840
I think it's about vision and Churchill

1955
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:39,639
actually gave an interview to the Daily

1956
01:30:36,840 --> 01:30:42,719
Telegraph as it happens a couple of

1957
01:30:39,639 --> 01:30:45,960
weeks before he made the Zurich speech

1958
01:30:42,719 --> 01:30:50,719
and it has a very powerful image in it

1959
01:30:45,960 --> 01:30:53,440
he says think of a Spanish Prisoner

1960
01:30:50,719 --> 01:30:54,560
languishing in a dungeon hundreds of

1961
01:30:53,440 --> 01:30:56,960
years ago

1962
01:30:54,560 --> 01:31:00,000
and the Man Poor Man has been there for

1963
01:30:56,960 --> 01:31:02,400
decades and he feels himself entirely

1964
01:31:00,000 --> 01:31:05,040
imprisoned but then one day he staggers

1965
01:31:02,400 --> 01:31:09,760
to his feet and he pushes the prison

1966
01:31:05,040 --> 01:31:12,159
door and it opens and he's free and in a

1967
01:31:09,760 --> 01:31:15,239
way Churchill was saying look we are in

1968
01:31:12,159 --> 01:31:17,239
a prison of our own making we have the

1969
01:31:15,239 --> 01:31:19,239
terrible consequences of the second

1970
01:31:17,239 --> 01:31:22,360
world war all the destruction and

1971
01:31:19,239 --> 01:31:24,800
Division and everything else and unless

1972
01:31:22,360 --> 01:31:27,280
we actually go to the this prison door

1973
01:31:24,800 --> 01:31:29,760
and push it we will not be able to go

1974
01:31:27,280 --> 01:31:32,600
out into a new world I think we're in a

1975
01:31:29,760 --> 01:31:36,320
very similar position today that because

1976
01:31:32,600 --> 01:31:40,840
people are all totally concerned with

1977
01:31:36,320 --> 01:31:43,320
dangers risks problems all of that it in

1978
01:31:40,840 --> 01:31:47,000
a way prevents them from thinking of

1979
01:31:43,320 --> 01:31:48,520
something new something fresh and that's

1980
01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:51,520
Churchill

1981
01:31:48,520 --> 01:31:54,400
was he was he was a realist you know but

1982
01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:58,600
he had this extraordinary

1983
01:31:54,400 --> 01:32:02,560
resilience and um he was never going to

1984
01:31:58,600 --> 01:32:05,840
take defeat as an answer to a challenge

1985
01:32:02,560 --> 01:32:08,400
and um I think it's very important in

1986
01:32:05,840 --> 01:32:11,199
our own imagination and our own thinking

1987
01:32:08,400 --> 01:32:13,440
now uh after brexit and everything else

1988
01:32:11,199 --> 01:32:16,520
we need and and God knows what will

1989
01:32:13,440 --> 01:32:20,239
happen in the United States we've got to

1990
01:32:16,520 --> 01:32:23,280
in a way take a leap of imagination and

1991
01:32:20,239 --> 01:32:25,920
say not only what do we wish to prevent

1992
01:32:23,280 --> 01:32:29,400
but what do actually wish to create yeah

1993
01:32:25,920 --> 01:32:32,080
now lastly just uh digressing a little

1994
01:32:29,400 --> 01:32:35,239
bit the parliament's going to be closed

1995
01:32:32,080 --> 01:32:37,159
down and dispersed uh for to get rid of

1996
01:32:35,239 --> 01:32:40,320
the rats the four-legged

1997
01:32:37,159 --> 01:32:43,400
variety uh and there's a proposal to cap

1998
01:32:40,320 --> 01:32:45,600
the number of members of the House of

1999
01:32:43,400 --> 01:32:48,760
Lords what do you think of that well I'm

2000
01:32:45,600 --> 01:32:50,719
in favor of an elected second chamber

2001
01:32:48,760 --> 01:32:52,440
and I do think that we have far too many

2002
01:32:50,719 --> 01:32:55,119
members of the House of Lords at the

2003
01:32:52,440 --> 01:32:57,440
moment partly because course um the

2004
01:32:55,119 --> 01:33:00,080
conservative party when it won its own

2005
01:32:57,440 --> 01:33:02,440
mandate in the last general election

2006
01:33:00,080 --> 01:33:05,360
suddenly realized rather late in the day

2007
01:33:02,440 --> 01:33:06,880
that this was the end of their majority

2008
01:33:05,360 --> 01:33:08,960
in the House of Lords so of course

2009
01:33:06,880 --> 01:33:12,960
they've created a whole raft of new

2010
01:33:08,960 --> 01:33:15,719
peers and we just have too many uh uh I

2011
01:33:12,960 --> 01:33:18,880
think there's no doubt about that but um

2012
01:33:15,719 --> 01:33:21,199
I would like I would like not for us to

2013
01:33:18,880 --> 01:33:23,440
Tinker with it I think we need to do

2014
01:33:21,199 --> 01:33:26,679
something radical and we are moving

2015
01:33:23,440 --> 01:33:28,600
toward towards a new way of governing

2016
01:33:26,679 --> 01:33:31,600
ourselves in the United Kingdom I mean

2017
01:33:28,600 --> 01:33:33,440
we have um much greater autonomy for

2018
01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:36,199
Scotland and who knows what will happen

2019
01:33:33,440 --> 01:33:39,080
elsewhere in the United Kingdom maybe

2020
01:33:36,199 --> 01:33:42,159
what we ought to consider is using the

2021
01:33:39,080 --> 01:33:43,400
second chamber an elected chamber to

2022
01:33:42,159 --> 01:33:48,239
really

2023
01:33:43,400 --> 01:33:50,920
represent and express um the new nature

2024
01:33:48,239 --> 01:33:53,280
of the United Kingdom where we will have

2025
01:33:50,920 --> 01:33:54,280
different nations and regions with much

2026
01:33:53,280 --> 01:33:56,600
more power

2027
01:33:54,280 --> 01:33:57,840
the great cities of London and

2028
01:33:56,600 --> 01:34:00,119
Manchester and all the rest of it

2029
01:33:57,840 --> 01:34:02,880
playing a quite different role maybe

2030
01:34:00,119 --> 01:34:05,320
something could be done uh in an elected

2031
01:34:02,880 --> 01:34:08,000
chamber but on the immediate question do

2032
01:34:05,320 --> 01:34:09,600
we have too many peers yes well maybe

2033
01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:12,199
I'll sit with you one day in that

2034
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:14,880
elected second chamber Lord Watson

2035
01:34:12,199 --> 01:34:16,960
you're a star man Lord Alan Watson

2036
01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:19,719
author of a new book published by

2037
01:34:16,960 --> 01:34:23,960
Bloomsbury Churchill's legacy two

2038
01:34:19,719 --> 01:34:26,239
speeches to save the world I think that

2039
01:34:23,960 --> 01:34:30,280
was an excellent interview I hope that

2040
01:34:26,239 --> 01:34:34,199
you do too in the next hour I'll be

2041
01:34:30,280 --> 01:34:39,080
talking about Korea it's all coming

2042
01:34:34,199 --> 01:34:41,239
up across the UK online and On Da the

2043
01:34:39,080 --> 01:34:43,719
mother of all talk shows with George

2044
01:34:41,239 --> 01:34:46,239
Galloway on talk radio we'll get you

2045
01:34:43,719 --> 01:34:48,840
talking listen up comrades of the World

2046
01:34:46,239 --> 01:34:51,280
Unite is a weapon of mass discussion and

2047
01:34:48,840 --> 01:34:53,199
back on your radio get ready for a

2048
01:34:51,280 --> 01:34:55,080
revolutionary rumble on your radio with

2049
01:34:53,199 --> 01:34:58,600
the original George of the political

2050
01:34:55,080 --> 01:35:01,560
jungle Galloway celebrate the mother of

2051
01:34:58,600 --> 01:35:03,600
all talk shows with George Galloway call

2052
01:35:01,560 --> 01:35:06,360
me have a go if you think you're hard

2053
01:35:03,600 --> 01:35:09,480
enough get it on the radio station that

2054
01:35:06,360 --> 01:35:10,840
gives power to the people so radio we'll

2055
01:35:09,480 --> 01:35:12,440
get you

2056
01:35:10,840 --> 01:35:16,840
talking

2057
01:35:12,440 --> 01:35:19,080
0844 499 1,000 that's the number to call

2058
01:35:16,840 --> 01:35:24,159
or tweet me why don't you at George

2059
01:35:19,080 --> 01:35:26,320
Galloway or at talk radio or at both in

2060
01:35:24,159 --> 01:35:29,480
the next hour we'll be talking about

2061
01:35:26,320 --> 01:35:32,239
Nutters and coldblooded Killers getting

2062
01:35:29,480 --> 01:35:34,600
their hands on nuclear weapons but

2063
01:35:32,239 --> 01:35:38,440
enough about Trump and Clinton and

2064
01:35:34,600 --> 01:35:41,880
Netanyahu we'll be talking to an expert

2065
01:35:38,440 --> 01:35:44,880
about Korea and the young one who seems

2066
01:35:41,880 --> 01:35:48,080
now to be able to pack a rather

2067
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:51,000
formidable punch it's the mother of all

2068
01:35:48,080 --> 01:35:53,280
talk shows call me have a go if you

2069
01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:55,440
think you're hard enough to get it the

2070
01:35:53,280 --> 01:35:58,000
mother of all talk shows with George

2071
01:35:55,440 --> 01:36:01,679
Galloway on talk radio we'll get you

2072
01:35:58,000 --> 01:36:05,400
talking you get it you get my point I'm

2073
01:36:01,679 --> 01:36:09,639
as appalled as anybody else that the

2074
01:36:05,400 --> 01:36:13,679
Young on Kim Jong Un the leader of North

2075
01:36:09,639 --> 01:36:17,199
Korea now appears to have a far more

2076
01:36:13,679 --> 01:36:20,159
forbid uh nuclear punch than he had

2077
01:36:17,199 --> 01:36:23,880
yesterday or than we knew he had

2078
01:36:20,159 --> 01:36:27,560
yesterday but then I was carried off by

2079
01:36:23,880 --> 01:36:30,840
Strath police's finest and thrown into a

2080
01:36:27,560 --> 01:36:33,360
cell in greck jail for protesting

2081
01:36:30,840 --> 01:36:36,960
against nuclear weapons so I have a

2082
01:36:33,360 --> 01:36:38,960
right to be uphold it surprises me a

2083
01:36:36,960 --> 01:36:41,400
little that people are who are quite

2084
01:36:38,960 --> 01:36:44,320
content at George W bush having his

2085
01:36:41,400 --> 01:36:48,080
finger on a nuclear button or Donald

2086
01:36:44,320 --> 01:36:51,119
Trump if he's elected in November or

2087
01:36:48,080 --> 01:36:55,280
Hillary Clinton if she is or for that

2088
01:36:51,119 --> 01:36:59,280
matter for David Cameron or T May or

2089
01:36:55,280 --> 01:37:01,960
Tony Blair to have his finger on very

2090
01:36:59,280 --> 01:37:04,679
substantial numbers of very very

2091
01:37:01,960 --> 01:37:07,080
powerful thermonuclear weapons it seems

2092
01:37:04,679 --> 01:37:10,000
to me a little well

2093
01:37:07,080 --> 01:37:14,960
hypocritical uh for them to claim to be

2094
01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:19,199
so appalled as I have a right to be

2095
01:37:14,960 --> 01:37:22,199
Korea is uh fascinating often disturbing

2096
01:37:19,199 --> 01:37:25,360
place you'd have to know the history and

2097
01:37:22,199 --> 01:37:29,719
I don't have time to tell it you but the

2098
01:37:25,360 --> 01:37:32,480
fact is North Korea lost 20% of its

2099
01:37:29,719 --> 01:37:35,600
entire population in the Korean War

2100
01:37:32,480 --> 01:37:39,159
launched by the United States and

2101
01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:42,239
Britain and other countries uh more than

2102
01:37:39,159 --> 01:37:45,560
half a century ago North Korea is

2103
01:37:42,239 --> 01:37:50,199
surrounded by hostile States constantly

2104
01:37:45,560 --> 01:37:53,000
on war Maneuvers against it it is deeply

2105
01:37:50,199 --> 01:37:54,000
paranoid it would be a good idea if you

2106
01:37:53,000 --> 01:37:56,960
ask me

2107
01:37:54,000 --> 01:38:00,560
for everyone to take a step back from

2108
01:37:56,960 --> 01:38:02,760
the consequences of that paranoia but

2109
01:38:00,560 --> 01:38:05,639
hey I'm not the honor senior research

2110
01:38:02,760 --> 01:38:08,760
fellow in sociology and modern Korea

2111
01:38:05,639 --> 01:38:10,840
Aiden Foster Carter is and he's been

2112
01:38:08,760 --> 01:38:13,639
good enough to join us at this late hour

2113
01:38:10,840 --> 01:38:16,199
on the mother of all talk shows Aiden

2114
01:38:13,639 --> 01:38:18,119
thanks for joining us it's it's a

2115
01:38:16,199 --> 01:38:20,760
pleasure uh you left at leed's

2116
01:38:18,119 --> 01:38:23,560
University and I was a former resident

2117
01:38:20,760 --> 01:38:26,440
of Bradford so I'm sure you'd like

2118
01:38:23,560 --> 01:38:28,760
mentioned both of those points yes Le

2119
01:38:26,440 --> 01:38:30,639
University you on one thing just to

2120
01:38:28,760 --> 01:38:33,480
start with I think we may agree more

2121
01:38:30,639 --> 01:38:35,520
than some might expect but the question

2122
01:38:33,480 --> 01:38:37,520
of who started the Korean war is not a

2123
01:38:35,520 --> 01:38:40,360
matter of opinion it's a matter of fact

2124
01:38:37,520 --> 01:38:43,199
and it wasn't uh it wasn't us lot honest

2125
01:38:40,360 --> 01:38:45,280
go um that that's just now established

2126
01:38:43,199 --> 01:38:47,080
we have the Russian and the Chinese ales

2127
01:38:45,280 --> 01:38:48,920
well it was it was us that joined it

2128
01:38:47,080 --> 01:38:51,239
Professor surely yeah we on behalf of

2129
01:38:48,920 --> 01:38:52,880
the United Nations well you say that but

2130
01:38:51,239 --> 01:38:54,920
the the Soviet Union wasn't in the

2131
01:38:52,880 --> 01:38:57,360
united na Nations and neither was China

2132
01:38:54,920 --> 01:38:59,400
at the time there was a paradox indeed

2133
01:38:57,360 --> 01:39:01,040
that the Soviet Union was boycotting the

2134
01:38:59,400 --> 01:39:02,880
UN at the time or they could have

2135
01:39:01,040 --> 01:39:04,440
exercised a veto and stopped it being

2136
01:39:02,880 --> 01:39:06,639
that but in terms of who crossed the

2137
01:39:04,440 --> 01:39:09,119
border it's perfectly clear yes it's an

2138
01:39:06,639 --> 01:39:11,880
old Nation unified for many hundreds of

2139
01:39:09,119 --> 01:39:13,560
years tragic then and now that it was

2140
01:39:11,880 --> 01:39:15,199
divided as a temporary measure it was

2141
01:39:13,560 --> 01:39:16,880
occupied by Japan and then the people

2142
01:39:15,199 --> 01:39:18,960
who liberated it divided it there's an

2143
01:39:16,880 --> 01:39:20,560
awful lot of tragedy in that but in

2144
01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:21,800
terms of who actually crossed the border

2145
01:39:20,560 --> 01:39:23,639
for the gamble I mean the South was

2146
01:39:21,800 --> 01:39:24,880
itching to do it it was the North who

2147
01:39:23,639 --> 01:39:26,440
actually did it but anyway we probably

2148
01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:29,000
want to talk about the present day stuff

2149
01:39:26,440 --> 01:39:31,960
we do tell us what happened

2150
01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:35,119
today what happened today is that North

2151
01:39:31,960 --> 01:39:38,560
Korea launched its first sorry its fifth

2152
01:39:35,119 --> 01:39:41,040
nuclear test um these have all happened

2153
01:39:38,560 --> 01:39:43,119
in the past decade it's the only country

2154
01:39:41,040 --> 01:39:45,239
uh new country no the only country at

2155
01:39:43,119 --> 01:39:46,960
all that's tested nuclear weapons in

2156
01:39:45,239 --> 01:39:49,639
this Century you quite rightly point out

2157
01:39:46,960 --> 01:39:52,280
it's far from being the world's only uh

2158
01:39:49,639 --> 01:39:55,360
only nuclear power the pace has

2159
01:39:52,280 --> 01:39:57,400
definitely accelerated under Kim jongan

2160
01:39:55,360 --> 01:39:59,599
grandson you know of the founder of the

2161
01:39:57,400 --> 01:40:01,480
regime it's a strange thing how

2162
01:39:59,599 --> 01:40:03,119
communism turns into into a kind of

2163
01:40:01,480 --> 01:40:05,360
monarchy but okay maybe we won't go

2164
01:40:03,119 --> 01:40:07,719
there maybe we will he's accelerating

2165
01:40:05,360 --> 01:40:09,599
the pace um we don't know it was the

2166
01:40:07,719 --> 01:40:11,840
biggest one yet apparently you can tell

2167
01:40:09,599 --> 01:40:13,920
that I'm not a nuclear expert you can

2168
01:40:11,840 --> 01:40:16,080
tell it from the seismographic records

2169
01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:18,840
whether he can really fit a warhead on a

2170
01:40:16,080 --> 01:40:21,320
missile as he claims um we don't we

2171
01:40:18,840 --> 01:40:24,080
don't know for sure but um it's it's

2172
01:40:21,320 --> 01:40:26,599
certainly a a cause for worry no doubt

2173
01:40:24,080 --> 01:40:28,719
about that at all indeed uh although

2174
01:40:26,599 --> 01:40:31,480
this is I promis the last Paradox I'll

2175
01:40:28,719 --> 01:40:33,560
bowl at you uh I I heard them talking in

2176
01:40:31,480 --> 01:40:35,719
shocked terms at the possibility that

2177
01:40:33,560 --> 01:40:37,520
North Korea might have a missile which

2178
01:40:35,719 --> 01:40:40,360
could reach the United States but the

2179
01:40:37,520 --> 01:40:43,280
United States has thousands of missiles

2180
01:40:40,360 --> 01:40:46,840
that could reach North Korea and indeed

2181
01:40:43,280 --> 01:40:49,119
are and indeed are pointed at it in yeah

2182
01:40:46,840 --> 01:40:50,599
if it it's you're welcome to bold

2183
01:40:49,119 --> 01:40:52,159
paradoxes because there are many and

2184
01:40:50,599 --> 01:40:53,840
it's good to to to query the

2185
01:40:52,159 --> 01:40:55,159
conventional wisdom there is I mean one

2186
01:40:53,840 --> 01:40:56,880
thing we'd certainly agree on is there's

2187
01:40:55,159 --> 01:40:58,520
a a lot of hypocrisy in the

2188
01:40:56,880 --> 01:41:01,480
international nuclear order there are

2189
01:40:58,520 --> 01:41:03,560
other Undeclared nuclear Powers I saw in

2190
01:41:01,480 --> 01:41:05,080
the Jerusalem Post that Israel condemns

2191
01:41:03,560 --> 01:41:07,920
North Korea and it's not so long ago

2192
01:41:05,080 --> 01:41:10,080
that the Israelis tried to buy off the

2193
01:41:07,920 --> 01:41:14,239
North Korean missile program which which

2194
01:41:10,080 --> 01:41:17,119
would actually be be another story um

2195
01:41:14,239 --> 01:41:21,400
sorry go on yeah the the the Thousand

2196
01:41:17,119 --> 01:41:23,360
Mile uh reach of this rodong missile

2197
01:41:21,400 --> 01:41:26,440
which landed in the Sea of Japan

2198
01:41:23,360 --> 01:41:29,280
recently seems to indicate a a a

2199
01:41:26,440 --> 01:41:31,760
parallel increase in their ballistic

2200
01:41:29,280 --> 01:41:34,280
missile capability and the nuclear

2201
01:41:31,760 --> 01:41:35,840
Firepower yeah there was the Japanese

2202
01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:37,239
who are very much in the front line like

2203
01:41:35,840 --> 01:41:40,040
the South Koreans have been totting up

2204
01:41:37,239 --> 01:41:41,679
the statistics and uh Kim Jong-il the

2205
01:41:40,040 --> 01:41:43,840
middle one the father of the present one

2206
01:41:41,679 --> 01:41:45,560
so he he launched about one ballistic

2207
01:41:43,840 --> 01:41:48,719
missile these are things they told not

2208
01:41:45,560 --> 01:41:52,119
to do by the UN about once a year and so

2209
01:41:48,719 --> 01:41:54,199
17 in total in his Reign whereas the sun

2210
01:41:52,119 --> 01:41:57,320
is heading for 40 and most of them have

2211
01:41:54,199 --> 01:41:59,560
been since the latest UN resolution in

2212
01:41:57,320 --> 01:42:02,280
in March this year the the thing I was

2213
01:41:59,560 --> 01:42:05,320
going to say is um the the North Korean

2214
01:42:02,280 --> 01:42:08,280
rationale for having these things seems

2215
01:42:05,320 --> 01:42:10,480
to me to resemble the views of the

2216
01:42:08,280 --> 01:42:12,440
National Rifle Association in the United

2217
01:42:10,480 --> 01:42:13,960
States why every good citizen should

2218
01:42:12,440 --> 01:42:16,480
have a gun because there are bad people

2219
01:42:13,960 --> 01:42:19,199
out there and for those of us who think

2220
01:42:16,480 --> 01:42:22,760
that's that's crazy um which I suppose

2221
01:42:19,199 --> 01:42:24,520
excludes a lot of I'm afraid it does as

2222
01:42:22,760 --> 01:42:26,599
you might find out uh in the

2223
01:42:24,520 --> 01:42:28,960
Congressional Senate and presidential

2224
01:42:26,599 --> 01:42:30,679
elections it definitely do most you know

2225
01:42:28,960 --> 01:42:32,960
there are what 200 nation states in the

2226
01:42:30,679 --> 01:42:35,440
world of consequen I'm glad that most of

2227
01:42:32,960 --> 01:42:37,560
them I obviously everyone seeks security

2228
01:42:35,440 --> 01:42:39,639
I'm glad that most small countries think

2229
01:42:37,560 --> 01:42:41,360
that it's a better idea either to you

2230
01:42:39,639 --> 01:42:43,679
know to join International organizations

2231
01:42:41,360 --> 01:42:45,599
to form alliances and so on if everybody

2232
01:42:43,679 --> 01:42:47,360
went T and toting like the North Koreans

2233
01:42:45,599 --> 01:42:50,119
I honestly cannot see that the world

2234
01:42:47,360 --> 01:42:52,159
would be a safer place no I agree I I

2235
01:42:50,119 --> 01:42:54,360
agree I agree entirely and I've been

2236
01:42:52,159 --> 01:42:56,880
there I don't know you have but uh I

2237
01:42:54,360 --> 01:43:00,599
have indeed yes yeah so we both know uh

2238
01:42:56,880 --> 01:43:03,480
it's a most peculiar uh regime uh yes

2239
01:43:00,599 --> 01:43:06,400
frankly your description of it is as

2240
01:43:03,480 --> 01:43:10,080
communist I would if we had more time uh

2241
01:43:06,400 --> 01:43:13,960
contend vigorously but let's look what

2242
01:43:10,080 --> 01:43:17,159
happens next Professor um is is it I

2243
01:43:13,960 --> 01:43:20,199
mean I heard uh Boris Johnson blustering

2244
01:43:17,159 --> 01:43:24,320
uh a minute ago talking about a robust

2245
01:43:20,199 --> 01:43:26,520
uh response what do they mean by that uh

2246
01:43:24,320 --> 01:43:29,040
absolutely um word I'm not allowed to

2247
01:43:26,520 --> 01:43:31,400
say to the radio hyphen all I think I

2248
01:43:29,040 --> 01:43:34,199
mean this this has this has no meaning

2249
01:43:31,400 --> 01:43:35,760
I'm in my view and this is opinion but I

2250
01:43:34,199 --> 01:43:39,159
guess that's what we're here for as well

2251
01:43:35,760 --> 01:43:41,000
um the the fact that not that Kim dran

2252
01:43:39,159 --> 01:43:42,599
has just done this second time in a year

2253
01:43:41,000 --> 01:43:46,159
very much accelerating the pace of his

2254
01:43:42,599 --> 01:43:48,480
nuclear tests shows that the the the

2255
01:43:46,159 --> 01:43:51,360
distinct sort of haish turn that we've

2256
01:43:48,480 --> 01:43:53,960
had in Western policy since January

2257
01:43:51,360 --> 01:43:55,800
since the last one in fact isn't working

2258
01:43:53,960 --> 01:43:57,280
I mean goodness those North Korea is

2259
01:43:55,800 --> 01:43:59,440
difficult no one's really got the answer

2260
01:43:57,280 --> 01:44:01,599
there people will say more hawkishness

2261
01:43:59,440 --> 01:44:03,560
yes you know or or conversely be nicer

2262
01:44:01,599 --> 01:44:05,159
to them I mean I don't think that either

2263
01:44:03,560 --> 01:44:07,119
of those necessarily Works what you need

2264
01:44:05,159 --> 01:44:09,000
is some sort of calibrated mix of the

2265
01:44:07,119 --> 01:44:11,480
stick and the carrot and we dropped the

2266
01:44:09,000 --> 01:44:13,159
carrot um understandably because you

2267
01:44:11,480 --> 01:44:15,719
it's a nasty regime it's very hard to

2268
01:44:13,159 --> 01:44:18,320
form any kind of political Coalition for

2269
01:44:15,719 --> 01:44:20,639
for aiding them and so on but um since

2270
01:44:18,320 --> 01:44:22,239
January it's all been about sanctions

2271
01:44:20,639 --> 01:44:24,000
it's all been about painting them into a

2272
01:44:22,239 --> 01:44:25,760
corner much stronger sanctions than ever

2273
01:44:24,000 --> 01:44:27,719
before but don't seem to be working I

2274
01:44:25,760 --> 01:44:30,679
mean China signed up them on paper but

2275
01:44:27,719 --> 01:44:32,760
China holds all the cards on this one um

2276
01:44:30,679 --> 01:44:35,199
and uh how far China is enforcing the

2277
01:44:32,760 --> 01:44:37,080
sanctions we don't know China is cross

2278
01:44:35,199 --> 01:44:39,760
but there are things that China would

2279
01:44:37,080 --> 01:44:41,719
detest more than the nuclear North Korea

2280
01:44:39,760 --> 01:44:43,520
they have and that would be a collapse

2281
01:44:41,719 --> 01:44:45,560
of North Korea right on their borders

2282
01:44:43,520 --> 01:44:47,239
remember they would hate the process of

2283
01:44:45,560 --> 01:44:49,159
that you know would lose nukes and they

2284
01:44:47,239 --> 01:44:52,000
would hate the result which would be a

2285
01:44:49,159 --> 01:44:55,119
us Ally with US troops and bases on its

2286
01:44:52,000 --> 01:44:57,159
soil right on on their borders so um

2287
01:44:55,119 --> 01:44:58,960
they they they hold the cards really and

2288
01:44:57,159 --> 01:45:00,520
uh there is there's so much Bluster you

2289
01:44:58,960 --> 01:45:02,080
know North Korea is a very lwh hanging

2290
01:45:00,520 --> 01:45:04,400
fruit we can all agree that North Korea

2291
01:45:02,080 --> 01:45:06,159
is horrible and denounce it and denounce

2292
01:45:04,400 --> 01:45:07,520
it but then what do we do it's it it's

2293
01:45:06,159 --> 01:45:10,840
not working we need to think of

2294
01:45:07,520 --> 01:45:12,320
something else well uh I mean Geor Jo is

2295
01:45:10,840 --> 01:45:15,080
better than war war we've been talking

2296
01:45:12,320 --> 01:45:17,679
about Winston Churchill earlier and

2297
01:45:15,080 --> 01:45:20,440
there just hasn't been very much Geor

2298
01:45:17,679 --> 01:45:22,239
for quite a long time and as we're not

2299
01:45:20,440 --> 01:45:23,760
going to go to war with North Korea as I

2300
01:45:22,239 --> 01:45:25,960
always put it

2301
01:45:23,760 --> 01:45:28,159
Iraq was invaded because it didn't have

2302
01:45:25,960 --> 01:45:30,560
weapons of mass destruction North Korea

2303
01:45:28,159 --> 01:45:32,199
will not be invaded because it does have

2304
01:45:30,560 --> 01:45:35,239
weapons of mass destruction that only

2305
01:45:32,199 --> 01:45:37,280
leaves georgo doesn't it I well that

2306
01:45:35,239 --> 01:45:39,719
that is how I that's how I read things I

2307
01:45:37,280 --> 01:45:41,719
mean admittedly not to underestimate the

2308
01:45:39,719 --> 01:45:44,040
difficulties that there is there's a

2309
01:45:41,719 --> 01:45:45,840
20year history of talks with North Korea

2310
01:45:44,040 --> 01:45:48,000
and at various times along the way we've

2311
01:45:45,840 --> 01:45:49,719
been we've had other crises and we've

2312
01:45:48,000 --> 01:45:52,440
been in better places than we are now I

2313
01:45:49,719 --> 01:45:55,400
mean anyone around who remembers 1994 I

2314
01:45:52,440 --> 01:45:58,400
mean that's when uh Bill Clinton

2315
01:45:55,400 --> 01:46:01,719
seriously thought of of striking the

2316
01:45:58,400 --> 01:46:04,040
nuclear um base that they have sorry the

2317
01:46:01,719 --> 01:46:05,880
nuclear yeah nuclear base at Yong Bon

2318
01:46:04,040 --> 01:46:08,000
north of Pyongyang because they were

2319
01:46:05,880 --> 01:46:10,199
taking cooling rods out and so on not to

2320
01:46:08,000 --> 01:46:12,360
go into all the detail but later that

2321
01:46:10,199 --> 01:46:14,960
same year Jimmy Carter intervened saved

2322
01:46:12,360 --> 01:46:16,719
the day um we nearly had an inter crean

2323
01:46:14,960 --> 01:46:19,080
Summit but kimlong died but we did have

2324
01:46:16,719 --> 01:46:20,719
an agreement with the United States and

2325
01:46:19,080 --> 01:46:22,520
the North Korean nuclear program the

2326
01:46:20,719 --> 01:46:24,440
known one I think they was pretty

2327
01:46:22,520 --> 01:46:26,280
clearly were cheating with another one

2328
01:46:24,440 --> 01:46:28,920
was in the can and under the inspection

2329
01:46:26,280 --> 01:46:31,320
of iaea it was hard to say that on the

2330
01:46:28,920 --> 01:46:33,320
radio International atomic energy agency

2331
01:46:31,320 --> 01:46:34,920
so you know we've we've gone I think I

2332
01:46:33,320 --> 01:46:36,520
think there has to be a diplomatic

2333
01:46:34,920 --> 01:46:38,360
component it is very difficult I mean

2334
01:46:36,520 --> 01:46:40,800
also they they call the South Korean

2335
01:46:38,360 --> 01:46:42,639
president all kinds of sexist names they

2336
01:46:40,800 --> 01:46:44,440
called Obama a wicked black monkey I

2337
01:46:42,639 --> 01:46:47,560
mean it's hard to believe you know what

2338
01:46:44,440 --> 01:46:49,239
kind of mindset um thinks you can you

2339
01:46:47,560 --> 01:46:51,119
can say that it would be clever or

2340
01:46:49,239 --> 01:46:52,520
sensible to say anything like that or to

2341
01:46:51,119 --> 01:46:53,920
think anything like that I don't know

2342
01:46:52,520 --> 01:46:56,320
the president of the Philippines was

2343
01:46:53,920 --> 01:46:58,880
rewarded with a meeting with that same

2344
01:46:56,320 --> 01:47:00,800
President Obama after what he said and

2345
01:46:58,880 --> 01:47:03,239
the South Koreans got one instead yes

2346
01:47:00,800 --> 01:47:05,159
it's again rather like my NRA comparison

2347
01:47:03,239 --> 01:47:07,840
earlier I don't really want to encourage

2348
01:47:05,159 --> 01:47:10,159
I mean the the the use of insult in

2349
01:47:07,840 --> 01:47:12,199
public life too much no I agree I tell

2350
01:47:10,159 --> 01:47:14,920
you what Professor I'm beginning to

2351
01:47:12,199 --> 01:47:17,560
think they should send the and me there

2352
01:47:14,920 --> 01:47:20,159
we might be able to sort this out thanks

2353
01:47:17,560 --> 01:47:22,480
very much indeed for joining us uh

2354
01:47:20,159 --> 01:47:25,880
Professor mytic on that but thank you

2355
01:47:22,480 --> 01:47:28,159
professor sir Aiden Foster Carter who's

2356
01:47:25,880 --> 01:47:31,560
the hon senior research fellow in

2357
01:47:28,159 --> 01:47:34,280
sociology and modern Korea at the

2358
01:47:31,560 --> 01:47:37,719
University of Leeds and a very smart man

2359
01:47:34,280 --> 01:47:40,159
if you ask me Louise Hart uh sends on

2360
01:47:37,719 --> 01:47:42,920
Twitter loving the show you said it in

2361
01:47:40,159 --> 01:47:47,719
one perfect sentence let's make all

2362
01:47:42,920 --> 01:47:50,560
schools grammar schools uh Simon Brian

2363
01:47:47,719 --> 01:47:53,639
Ander says gifted students Leap Frog

2364
01:47:50,560 --> 01:47:57,360
others a lad at my school passed his GCS

2365
01:47:53,639 --> 01:48:00,639
at 14 class sets

2366
01:47:57,360 --> 01:48:03,360
cater uh Simon James says social

2367
01:48:00,639 --> 01:48:05,800
Mobility is a tacit endorsement of the

2368
01:48:03,360 --> 01:48:09,960
class system in an equal Society no

2369
01:48:05,800 --> 01:48:15,080
Mobility would be needed I wish I'd said

2370
01:48:09,960 --> 01:48:18,760
that I will I will I promise 0844 499

2371
01:48:15,080 --> 01:48:22,400
1000 that's the number to call you can

2372
01:48:18,760 --> 01:48:26,080
uh tweet me you can text me you can

2373
01:48:22,400 --> 01:48:28,520
email me even and uh we've still got 45

2374
01:48:26,080 --> 01:48:33,639
minutes to go so lots of time for you to

2375
01:48:28,520 --> 01:48:36,280
have your say 0844 499

2376
01:48:33,639 --> 01:48:38,800
1000 call me have a go if you think

2377
01:48:36,280 --> 01:48:41,440
you're hard enough get it the mother of

2378
01:48:38,800 --> 01:48:44,199
all talk shows with George Galloway on

2379
01:48:41,440 --> 01:48:47,080
talk radio we'll get you talking let's

2380
01:48:44,199 --> 01:48:49,599
get talking first to Andrew in Helen's

2381
01:48:47,080 --> 01:48:51,800
Bay in the north of Ireland Andrew

2382
01:48:49,599 --> 01:48:55,000
welcome hi George it's good to be back

2383
01:48:51,800 --> 01:48:56,400
been busy for the past week make it a

2384
01:48:55,000 --> 01:48:58,400
very very nice to hear from you again

2385
01:48:56,400 --> 01:49:00,440
what would you like to say um yes I'll

2386
01:48:58,400 --> 01:49:02,199
come on Kore very briefly before we get

2387
01:49:00,440 --> 01:49:04,800
to the other points now I'm no expert on

2388
01:49:02,199 --> 01:49:07,000
Korea but surely if uh America and other

2389
01:49:04,800 --> 01:49:08,800
nations around it disarm their nuclear

2390
01:49:07,000 --> 01:49:10,800
weapons Al I guess you can never really

2391
01:49:08,800 --> 01:49:12,760
know what North Korea will do they may

2392
01:49:10,800 --> 01:49:15,480
see hopefully that they are no longer

2393
01:49:12,760 --> 01:49:17,599
under any nuclear threat so they may

2394
01:49:15,480 --> 01:49:19,560
disarm them I'm not saying the will so

2395
01:49:17,599 --> 01:49:21,719
hope that may be a start we all know

2396
01:49:19,560 --> 01:49:23,280
from hirosima and Nagasaki with small

2397
01:49:21,719 --> 01:49:24,960
atom atomic bomb

2398
01:49:23,280 --> 01:49:28,199
the longlasting effects and damage

2399
01:49:24,960 --> 01:49:29,960
nuclear weapons have and would cause so

2400
01:49:28,199 --> 01:49:32,040
of course we're not going to attack them

2401
01:49:29,960 --> 01:49:34,960
funly enough Churchill in that Zurich

2402
01:49:32,040 --> 01:49:37,440
speech talked about the proliferation of

2403
01:49:34,960 --> 01:49:40,239
nuclear weapons which at that stage when

2404
01:49:37,440 --> 01:49:43,239
he made it only the United States had

2405
01:49:40,239 --> 01:49:46,040
and how they potentially uh would

2406
01:49:43,239 --> 01:49:48,440
destroy the entire Earth that the earth

2407
01:49:46,040 --> 01:49:51,840
and the human race would cease to exist

2408
01:49:48,440 --> 01:49:54,639
so it's kind of high stakes uh I I'm

2409
01:49:51,840 --> 01:49:58,599
just pointing out the hypocrisy of

2410
01:49:54,639 --> 01:50:00,719
people uh who themselves are nuts Who

2411
01:49:58,599 --> 01:50:03,320
themselves have a long history of

2412
01:50:00,719 --> 01:50:06,639
attacking other countries and who

2413
01:50:03,320 --> 01:50:10,639
themselves possess thousands of nuclear

2414
01:50:06,639 --> 01:50:14,199
weapons uh going all uh Giddy and faint

2415
01:50:10,639 --> 01:50:16,119
at the idea of North Korea having one I

2416
01:50:14,199 --> 01:50:18,880
know like I mean I I just don't

2417
01:50:16,119 --> 01:50:21,320
understand it but like I mean we're

2418
01:50:18,880 --> 01:50:22,960
we're I'm all we're all of us can agree

2419
01:50:21,320 --> 01:50:25,320
on the fact that we all want nucle dis

2420
01:50:22,960 --> 01:50:27,239
arent but surely why should why should

2421
01:50:25,320 --> 01:50:29,760
some n Nations be allowed to have some

2422
01:50:27,239 --> 01:50:33,000
and not others you know that that ARG

2423
01:50:29,760 --> 01:50:34,920
deeply racist I heard there was um at

2424
01:50:33,000 --> 01:50:36,840
the time it's obviously things are a lot

2425
01:50:34,920 --> 01:50:39,080
better now there's far fewer nuclear

2426
01:50:36,840 --> 01:50:41,000
weapons than there was in the past like

2427
01:50:39,080 --> 01:50:42,040
there used to be the United States used

2428
01:50:41,000 --> 01:50:44,840
to have

2429
01:50:42,040 --> 01:50:46,679
27,000 nuclear weapons yeah I heard I

2430
01:50:44,840 --> 01:50:48,800
heard someone say I think it was Mar

2431
01:50:46,679 --> 01:50:50,719
teacher once said um they had enough

2432
01:50:48,800 --> 01:50:52,159
nuclear weapons to blow up the world 400

2433
01:50:50,719 --> 01:50:54,280
times at the peak of the Cold War or

2434
01:50:52,159 --> 01:50:56,040
something like that yes yes anyway you

2435
01:50:54,280 --> 01:50:59,560
wanted to talk about uh the labor

2436
01:50:56,040 --> 01:51:01,440
leadership too yeah yeah yes um Jeremy

2437
01:50:59,560 --> 01:51:03,360
oh he was phenomenal last night he was

2438
01:51:01,440 --> 01:51:05,040
really different class wasn't he no

2439
01:51:03,360 --> 01:51:07,000
personal abuse interacted with the

2440
01:51:05,040 --> 01:51:09,159
audience so well and the fact that Owen

2441
01:51:07,000 --> 01:51:10,880
Smith's supporters who were there were

2442
01:51:09,159 --> 01:51:12,599
applauding him tells you all you need to

2443
01:51:10,880 --> 01:51:15,760
know about how superb his performance

2444
01:51:12,599 --> 01:51:19,000
was I I I felt that it was meaningfully

2445
01:51:15,760 --> 01:51:22,239
the end of the contest nobody in the

2446
01:51:19,000 --> 01:51:25,880
right mind would vote for for uh for the

2447
01:51:22,239 --> 01:51:27,599
uh AR chameleon uh rather than Jeremy

2448
01:51:25,880 --> 01:51:30,280
Corbin they might not like Jeremy Corbin

2449
01:51:27,599 --> 01:51:33,400
but they can't pretend uh to themselves

2450
01:51:30,280 --> 01:51:34,840
even that uh Owen Smith is a better and

2451
01:51:33,400 --> 01:51:37,280
more electable

2452
01:51:34,840 --> 01:51:38,840
leader but yeah as for Owen it couldn't

2453
01:51:37,280 --> 01:51:40,599
have been any more contrasting and there

2454
01:51:38,840 --> 01:51:42,719
is an issue that he keeps making up and

2455
01:51:40,599 --> 01:51:45,199
I notice this every time he speaks it's

2456
01:51:42,719 --> 01:51:47,159
regarding the polls I'm very skeptical

2457
01:51:45,199 --> 01:51:49,440
regarding the polls considering how

2458
01:51:47,159 --> 01:51:50,960
inaccurate they've been recently

2459
01:51:49,440 --> 01:51:55,040
the

2460
01:51:50,960 --> 01:51:57,119
the the PS on not a measure Andrew of

2461
01:51:55,040 --> 01:51:59,599
public opinion they're are means of

2462
01:51:57,119 --> 01:52:02,400
creating public opinion thanks for the

2463
01:51:59,599 --> 01:52:05,560
call good luck to you uh Ray my old

2464
01:52:02,400 --> 01:52:08,560
friend in Ponte Ponte prath in the South

2465
01:52:05,560 --> 01:52:10,079
Wales Valley Ray welcome good evening

2466
01:52:08,560 --> 01:52:13,760
George good evening what would you like

2467
01:52:10,079 --> 01:52:17,000
to say um I'd like to say um Hillary

2468
01:52:13,760 --> 01:52:20,000
Clinton or Donald Trump electric chair

2469
01:52:17,000 --> 01:52:22,880
or hang in yeah exactly which would you

2470
01:52:20,000 --> 01:52:26,119
prefer exactly

2471
01:52:22,880 --> 01:52:28,960
who next will he be putting up uh Donald

2472
01:52:26,119 --> 01:52:31,119
Duck Donal Donald Duck versus Mickey

2473
01:52:28,960 --> 01:52:32,520
Mouse at least at least they probably

2474
01:52:31,119 --> 01:52:36,639
wouldn't destroy the

2475
01:52:32,520 --> 01:52:41,239
Earth these two have every potential to

2476
01:52:36,639 --> 01:52:45,760
um George if I bought you DVD as I said

2477
01:52:41,239 --> 01:52:48,760
to you before and it's excellent butk if

2478
01:52:45,760 --> 01:52:52,520
anybody with an apatha sense could have

2479
01:52:48,760 --> 01:52:54,760
uh said that if they had chemical and

2480
01:52:52,520 --> 01:52:57,079
biological weapons we wouldn't have gone

2481
01:52:54,760 --> 01:52:59,560
anywhere near them exactly yeah that's

2482
01:52:57,079 --> 01:53:01,480
the point I just made about Korea

2483
01:52:59,560 --> 01:53:05,400
there's no way of making a war against

2484
01:53:01,480 --> 01:53:08,920
North Korea uh so that only leaves uh

2485
01:53:05,400 --> 01:53:11,400
George Jo that's right George somebody

2486
01:53:08,920 --> 01:53:14,000
mentioned the Michael Mo DVD I bought it

2487
01:53:11,400 --> 01:53:17,239
the same time as I bought us as yeah and

2488
01:53:14,000 --> 01:53:19,560
he does a an indepth he goes around the

2489
01:53:17,239 --> 01:53:22,960
countries in Europe their Educational

2490
01:53:19,560 --> 01:53:26,360
Systems and the Danish system is top

2491
01:53:22,960 --> 01:53:28,520
now why can't we go send a delegation

2492
01:53:26,360 --> 01:53:30,599
over here I mean our education is

2493
01:53:28,520 --> 01:53:32,920
devolved in Wales but it's bottom of the

2494
01:53:30,599 --> 01:53:35,920
pile they even diverted money from

2495
01:53:32,920 --> 01:53:38,599
Health into education is still ding now

2496
01:53:35,920 --> 01:53:40,000
and and bring that model back here when

2497
01:53:38,599 --> 01:53:43,320
Michael Mo

2498
01:53:40,000 --> 01:53:46,639
contends that us an America what they

2499
01:53:43,320 --> 01:53:49,159
want to do is keep the population dumb

2500
01:53:46,639 --> 01:53:53,079
and then when they get to um say 16 or

2501
01:53:49,159 --> 01:53:55,679
17 then play the fear card yeah you know

2502
01:53:53,079 --> 01:53:58,199
what I mean I do I do absolutely Ray

2503
01:53:55,679 --> 01:53:59,880
thanks look I've gotd it's really good I

2504
01:53:58,199 --> 01:54:01,520
will do I've got a press on because of

2505
01:53:59,880 --> 01:54:03,760
the hour and the number of people trying

2506
01:54:01,520 --> 01:54:06,760
to get through let's go to Grant in aloa

2507
01:54:03,760 --> 01:54:08,079
go ahead Grant hi there George hi um

2508
01:54:06,760 --> 01:54:10,840
what I was looking to talk about George

2509
01:54:08,079 --> 01:54:13,639
and um you were actually around about um

2510
01:54:10,840 --> 01:54:16,760
when it happened um when Tony Blair came

2511
01:54:13,639 --> 01:54:19,280
in to obviously his leader a tried to

2512
01:54:16,760 --> 01:54:21,280
change the brand of Labor and I believe

2513
01:54:19,280 --> 01:54:23,119
personally it resulted in taking away

2514
01:54:21,280 --> 01:54:26,440
the workingclass voice and what I mean

2515
01:54:23,119 --> 01:54:28,679
by that is um all you kind of tried to

2516
01:54:26,440 --> 01:54:31,400
create a middle class image about Labor

2517
01:54:28,679 --> 01:54:33,599
and eventually we we end up having no

2518
01:54:31,400 --> 01:54:35,239
working class MPS given a voice for the

2519
01:54:33,599 --> 01:54:37,400
working class to this day and age and

2520
01:54:35,239 --> 01:54:39,239
it's not that I resent the work it's not

2521
01:54:37,400 --> 01:54:41,800
that I resent the middle class it's just

2522
01:54:39,239 --> 01:54:44,280
I I definitely I definitely think that

2523
01:54:41,800 --> 01:54:45,920
there needs to be a more balance within

2524
01:54:44,280 --> 01:54:48,480
labor party as and I want to see more

2525
01:54:45,920 --> 01:54:50,000
working class MPS out there talking

2526
01:54:48,480 --> 01:54:52,520
talking for us if if you get what I'm

2527
01:54:50,000 --> 01:54:54,119
saying GE I do and look when I enter

2528
01:54:52,520 --> 01:54:57,880
parliament in

2529
01:54:54,119 --> 01:55:00,040
1987 there were I was a sponsored uh MP

2530
01:54:57,880 --> 01:55:02,800
from the then transport and general

2531
01:55:00,040 --> 01:55:05,880
Workers Union uh there were well over

2532
01:55:02,800 --> 01:55:09,800
100 maybe nearly to 150 Trade union

2533
01:55:05,880 --> 01:55:13,119
sponsored MPS uh people who had been uh

2534
01:55:09,800 --> 01:55:16,920
Dockers and Miners And Engineering

2535
01:55:13,119 --> 01:55:18,920
workers and uh all kinds of Trades who'

2536
01:55:16,920 --> 01:55:23,159
lived in the real world who'd

2537
01:55:18,920 --> 01:55:26,320
represented workers at various levels

2538
01:55:23,159 --> 01:55:29,840
uh and all of that uh is a thing of the

2539
01:55:26,320 --> 01:55:34,840
past by the time I left parliament in

2540
01:55:29,840 --> 01:55:37,199
2015 I was one of a tiny handful of

2541
01:55:34,840 --> 01:55:41,239
Labor members of parliament who had not

2542
01:55:37,199 --> 01:55:46,520
a been to University uh B uh being uh a

2543
01:55:41,239 --> 01:55:49,440
kind of uh uh researcher or spad uh or

2544
01:55:46,520 --> 01:55:52,679
the kind of FastTrack transmission belt

2545
01:55:49,440 --> 01:55:55,800
of a political class from St student

2546
01:55:52,679 --> 01:55:57,960
politics straight onto the floor of the

2547
01:55:55,800 --> 01:56:01,800
House of Commons straight onto the front

2548
01:55:57,960 --> 01:56:04,960
bench and into ministerial office it is

2549
01:56:01,800 --> 01:56:07,719
a lamentable development and we have all

2550
01:56:04,960 --> 01:56:10,480
been cheated by it Grant thanks uh for

2551
01:56:07,719 --> 01:56:14,599
that let me take a few uh tweets and so

2552
01:56:10,480 --> 01:56:17,119
on well Adrien says uh Trea May has no

2553
01:56:14,599 --> 01:56:20,159
mandate everybody seems oblivious to the

2554
01:56:17,119 --> 01:56:23,000
fact that she was appointed not elected

2555
01:56:20,159 --> 01:56:25,960
as prime minister absolutely uh now I

2556
01:56:23,000 --> 01:56:28,880
said earlier uh that uh Jeremy Corbin

2557
01:56:25,960 --> 01:56:32,280
had performed like Jim Baxter in his

2558
01:56:28,880 --> 01:56:35,119
pump uh but the time traveler says more

2559
01:56:32,280 --> 01:56:37,480
a mixture of all the best qualities of

2560
01:56:35,119 --> 01:56:40,280
Jinky that's Jimmy Johnson of the Celtic

2561
01:56:37,480 --> 01:56:43,400
and Jim Baxter and Davey Cooper two of

2562
01:56:40,280 --> 01:56:45,239
the greatest of all Rangers uh players

2563
01:56:43,400 --> 01:56:48,400
fair enough fair enough it was the

2564
01:56:45,239 --> 01:56:51,760
strolling point that I had in mind uh

2565
01:56:48,400 --> 01:56:53,840
that's why I chose Baxter he Jim Baer

2566
01:56:51,760 --> 01:56:56,000
with the ball At His Feet you got the

2567
01:56:53,840 --> 01:56:57,920
impression like a knife through butter

2568
01:56:56,000 --> 01:57:00,760
he could stroll through the opposition

2569
01:56:57,920 --> 01:57:02,920
because he was Head and Shoulders above

2570
01:57:00,760 --> 01:57:06,079
them that's the point I was making Peter

2571
01:57:02,920 --> 01:57:09,760
Cook says the tax system isn't directly

2572
01:57:06,079 --> 01:57:13,960
related to a quality fully fund public

2573
01:57:09,760 --> 01:57:15,920
education system and cherl Lara says

2574
01:57:13,960 --> 01:57:18,119
when a terrorist is armed by the US he's

2575
01:57:15,920 --> 01:57:21,639
called a freedom fighter when the US

2576
01:57:18,119 --> 01:57:24,400
invades a country it's called Liberation

2577
01:57:21,639 --> 01:57:26,800
and Mark Doran says any guesses as to

2578
01:57:24,400 --> 01:57:30,159
who said I hate Indians they are a

2579
01:57:26,800 --> 01:57:33,320
beastly people with a beastly religion

2580
01:57:30,159 --> 01:57:35,639
wrong hero GG well Mark you just weren't

2581
01:57:33,320 --> 01:57:39,159
listening or maybe you sent that tweet

2582
01:57:35,639 --> 01:57:42,760
before I explained nobody needs to

2583
01:57:39,159 --> 01:57:45,560
educate me on the racist and imperialist

2584
01:57:42,760 --> 01:57:48,280
and conservative Tory right-wing

2585
01:57:45,560 --> 01:57:50,480
character of Winston Churchill nobody

2586
01:57:48,280 --> 01:57:52,159
needs to tell me about his crimes

2587
01:57:50,480 --> 01:57:53,920
against the people of Ireland against

2588
01:57:52,159 --> 01:57:55,679
against the people of ton pande in the

2589
01:57:53,920 --> 01:57:58,880
south of Wales against the people in

2590
01:57:55,679 --> 01:58:01,880
George Square in uh in Glasgow against

2591
01:57:58,880 --> 01:58:04,159
whom he sent tanks about his role in the

2592
01:58:01,880 --> 01:58:08,199
general strike nobody needs to lecture

2593
01:58:04,159 --> 01:58:12,199
me on these things mark my point is that

2594
01:58:08,199 --> 01:58:15,599
there would be no Britain there would be

2595
01:58:12,199 --> 01:58:17,440
no democracy there would be no Freedom

2596
01:58:15,599 --> 01:58:20,320
there would be no mother of all talk

2597
01:58:17,440 --> 01:58:22,679
shows there would be no ability to

2598
01:58:20,320 --> 01:58:26,480
communicate Progressive or leftwing

2599
01:58:22,679 --> 01:58:30,560
ideas at all because the Gestapo would

2600
01:58:26,480 --> 01:58:34,280
be ruling our country the ver would have

2601
01:58:30,560 --> 01:58:37,679
invaded and occupied us and might occupy

2602
01:58:34,280 --> 01:58:41,520
us still and not just us but be in

2603
01:58:37,679 --> 01:58:44,280
occupation fascism triumphing across the

2604
01:58:41,520 --> 01:58:48,599
entire Globe don't you get my point it

2605
01:58:44,280 --> 01:58:51,440
can't get much more serious than that

2606
01:58:48,599 --> 01:58:52,639
there would be nothing do you understand

2607
01:58:51,440 --> 01:58:57,400
just a

2608
01:58:52,639 --> 01:59:00,719
void if not for the decision of

2609
01:58:57,400 --> 01:59:05,119
Churchill to refuse to surrender when

2610
01:59:00,719 --> 01:59:06,440
his foreign secretary Halifax and the

2611
01:59:05,119 --> 01:59:10,239
the king

2612
01:59:06,440 --> 01:59:14,079
himself was ready to make a surrender

2613
01:59:10,239 --> 01:59:16,920
peace with Hitler and others including

2614
01:59:14,079 --> 01:59:21,239
the owners of the major

2615
01:59:16,920 --> 01:59:26,040
newspapers wanted to actually see the

2616
01:59:21,239 --> 01:59:29,119
victory of hitlerism don't you see Mark

2617
01:59:26,040 --> 01:59:31,880
that no matter how many vile quotes from

2618
01:59:29,119 --> 01:59:34,960
Winston Churchill you throw at

2619
01:59:31,880 --> 01:59:38,800
me that moment in

2620
01:59:34,960 --> 01:59:41,440
time that moment on which the entire

2621
01:59:38,800 --> 01:59:44,800
history of the world

2622
01:59:41,440 --> 01:59:47,079
turned is what

2623
01:59:44,800 --> 01:59:51,440
expedites what

2624
01:59:47,079 --> 01:59:55,480
wipes any crime any sin any ugly

2625
01:59:51,440 --> 01:59:57,360
statement ever made by Winston

2626
01:59:55,480 --> 01:59:59,800
Churchill he's a weapon of mass

2627
01:59:57,360 --> 02:00:02,079
discussion and he's back on your radio

2628
01:59:59,800 --> 02:00:04,880
the mother of all talk shows with George

2629
02:00:02,079 --> 02:00:09,040
Galloway on talk radio we'll get you

2630
02:00:04,880 --> 02:00:12,440
talking 0844 4991 th000 call me up

2631
02:00:09,040 --> 02:00:15,920
you've still got 25 minutes or so to get

2632
02:00:12,440 --> 02:00:18,320
through and join the great debate now uh

2633
02:00:15,920 --> 02:00:20,960
the best of Ian Lee is coming up after

2634
02:00:18,320 --> 02:00:24,159
me at 10:00 and tomorrow morning from

2635
02:00:20,960 --> 02:00:25,679
800 a.m. Penny Smith catches you up on

2636
02:00:24,159 --> 02:00:28,560
the new stories you might have missed

2637
02:00:25,679 --> 02:00:31,480
this week Amy Schindler is in to talk

2638
02:00:28,560 --> 02:00:34,400
about her new Play Burning Bridges and

2639
02:00:31,480 --> 02:00:38,960
Penny talks to author Louise candish all

2640
02:00:34,400 --> 02:00:42,520
that is from ATM and only on talk radio

2641
02:00:38,960 --> 02:00:44,199
uh Kinski says uh well we've got plenty

2642
02:00:42,520 --> 02:00:47,040
of health and safety equality and

2643
02:00:44,199 --> 02:00:49,840
diversity and managers though so all is

2644
02:00:47,040 --> 02:00:52,000
well not uh George I know you don't like

2645
02:00:49,840 --> 02:00:54,000
Hillary but please it's time to support

2646
02:00:52,000 --> 02:00:56,920
the lesser of two evils before it's too

2647
02:00:54,000 --> 02:00:58,800
late even Bernie had to says Ray in

2648
02:00:56,920 --> 02:01:02,320
London but I don't accept that she's the

2649
02:00:58,800 --> 02:01:04,840
lesser of two evils neither do I accept

2650
02:01:02,320 --> 02:01:07,360
this concept of always going for the

2651
02:01:04,840 --> 02:01:10,480
lesser of two evils because that's an

2652
02:01:07,360 --> 02:01:14,440
open invitation for everybody at the top

2653
02:01:10,480 --> 02:01:16,920
to get more and more evil because if the

2654
02:01:14,440 --> 02:01:20,000
Lesser evil knows that they can count on

2655
02:01:16,920 --> 02:01:22,920
your support no matter how evil they

2656
02:01:20,000 --> 02:01:25,920
themselves are then there is no stopping

2657
02:01:22,920 --> 02:01:28,360
them becoming more and more evil so

2658
02:01:25,920 --> 02:01:31,119
Bernie shouldn't have Bernie should have

2659
02:01:28,360 --> 02:01:33,840
run as an independent presidential

2660
02:01:31,119 --> 02:01:36,960
candidate with my candidate Dr Jill

2661
02:01:33,840 --> 02:01:39,199
Stein of the green party as his running

2662
02:01:36,960 --> 02:01:41,199
mate that's what should have happened

2663
02:01:39,199 --> 02:01:43,920
and if I had a vote it would now be

2664
02:01:41,199 --> 02:01:47,159
going to Dr Jill let's hear from Edward

2665
02:01:43,920 --> 02:01:50,800
in Barnett on Trump and Clinton go ahead

2666
02:01:47,159 --> 02:01:52,679
Edward hi George hi hi um well

2667
02:01:50,800 --> 02:01:54,760
ordinarily I think I disagree with you

2668
02:01:52,679 --> 02:01:57,199
on most things on this issue of trump

2669
02:01:54,760 --> 02:01:59,040
and Clinton I tend to agree with a lot

2670
02:01:57,199 --> 02:02:01,280
of the things that you say I think that

2671
02:01:59,040 --> 02:02:04,400
one of the issues I have though is you

2672
02:02:01,280 --> 02:02:06,000
see certainly in the British media Trump

2673
02:02:04,400 --> 02:02:07,480
gets a really rough ride which I think

2674
02:02:06,000 --> 02:02:09,800
is totally deserved a lot of the things

2675
02:02:07,480 --> 02:02:11,960
he says a vile and it's he should be

2676
02:02:09,800 --> 02:02:15,199
exposed for exactly what he is but

2677
02:02:11,960 --> 02:02:17,599
Clinton seems to get a very very easy R

2678
02:02:15,199 --> 02:02:19,440
she does yeah a lot of the scandals

2679
02:02:17,599 --> 02:02:21,480
she's been involved in and you know the

2680
02:02:19,440 --> 02:02:23,440
scandals whether it's this more sort of

2681
02:02:21,480 --> 02:02:26,480
harmless things you know lying about

2682
02:02:23,440 --> 02:02:28,239
coming under sniper fire in Bosnia white

2683
02:02:26,480 --> 02:02:29,719
waterer Scandal I mean there's a whole

2684
02:02:28,239 --> 02:02:30,960
raft of things they just don't get

2685
02:02:29,719 --> 02:02:33,199
talked about and these things get

2686
02:02:30,960 --> 02:02:35,639
brushed under the carpet I'm just really

2687
02:02:33,199 --> 02:02:38,040
curious for your thoughts on why we've

2688
02:02:35,639 --> 02:02:40,040
continuously got this barrage of

2689
02:02:38,040 --> 02:02:42,400
rhetoric coming out of trump which is

2690
02:02:40,040 --> 02:02:43,960
making front pages but then with Clinton

2691
02:02:42,400 --> 02:02:45,760
there's so much more I think we could be

2692
02:02:43,960 --> 02:02:47,719
talking about which just never gets

2693
02:02:45,760 --> 02:02:49,719
exposure in the media and that's on the

2694
02:02:47,719 --> 02:02:52,400
left and on the right yeah absolutely

2695
02:02:49,719 --> 02:02:56,040
they want Clinton to win so they are

2696
02:02:52,400 --> 02:02:59,480
covering up the gigantic scandals uh I

2697
02:02:56,040 --> 02:03:02,119
mean the one you quoted uh is a scandal

2698
02:02:59,480 --> 02:03:04,560
only in that it proves her to be a liar

2699
02:03:02,119 --> 02:03:08,119
uh well of course most uh leading

2700
02:03:04,560 --> 02:03:10,000
politicians are liars uh but it is an

2701
02:03:08,119 --> 02:03:14,040
important example of which she is ready

2702
02:03:10,000 --> 02:03:17,960
to invent uh uh facts which uh are

2703
02:03:14,040 --> 02:03:21,199
simply contradicted even by the simplest

2704
02:03:17,960 --> 02:03:22,440
uh look at the video and uh and public

2705
02:03:21,199 --> 02:03:25,280
record but

2706
02:03:22,440 --> 02:03:29,239
the other scandals that she is involved

2707
02:03:25,280 --> 02:03:32,000
in are far far more grave and I have no

2708
02:03:29,239 --> 02:03:35,320
doubt at all that we're in for more and

2709
02:03:32,000 --> 02:03:38,079
more war if Hillary Clinton becomes the

2710
02:03:35,320 --> 02:03:40,520
president and I will not support her uh

2711
02:03:38,079 --> 02:03:43,719
I don't accept uh by the way that she's

2712
02:03:40,520 --> 02:03:46,199
less evil than uh Donald Trump you could

2713
02:03:43,719 --> 02:03:49,559
make an argument I don't that actually

2714
02:03:46,199 --> 02:03:53,280
he's less evil than her in the sense

2715
02:03:49,559 --> 02:03:56,000
that he's less ready to go to war with

2716
02:03:53,280 --> 02:04:00,040
all and Sury I don't myself I think

2717
02:03:56,000 --> 02:04:02,679
they're equally evil and equally

2718
02:04:00,040 --> 02:04:03,800
dangerous go on go on Edward yeah I was

2719
02:04:02,679 --> 02:04:05,199
just going to say I think that she'll

2720
02:04:03,800 --> 02:04:07,639
take money from anyone and if you look

2721
02:04:05,199 --> 02:04:09,880
at going back to Bill Clinton's Reign

2722
02:04:07,639 --> 02:04:12,440
and the money that they were taking the

2723
02:04:09,880 --> 02:04:14,280
well the lack of transparency money de

2724
02:04:12,440 --> 02:04:16,480
they're deeply corrupt people the

2725
02:04:14,280 --> 02:04:18,119
clintons but it just doesn't get exposed

2726
02:04:16,480 --> 02:04:19,719
I don't understand it and it's a it's a

2727
02:04:18,119 --> 02:04:21,199
left and a right issue they don't want

2728
02:04:19,719 --> 02:04:23,520
to come out with it and I understand the

2729
02:04:21,199 --> 02:04:24,719
American media because obviously America

2730
02:04:23,520 --> 02:04:26,440
they want their president they want

2731
02:04:24,719 --> 02:04:29,960
Clinton they see Trump as a huge

2732
02:04:26,440 --> 02:04:31,800
uncertainty and a massive liability but

2733
02:04:29,960 --> 02:04:35,079
why in the British media does it not get

2734
02:04:31,800 --> 02:04:36,880
the same exposure well uh as I said they

2735
02:04:35,079 --> 02:04:41,800
they want to first of all you've got the

2736
02:04:36,880 --> 02:04:44,880
feminist uh angle uh at play uh that uh

2737
02:04:41,800 --> 02:04:48,199
the liberal media the guardian and so on

2738
02:04:44,880 --> 02:04:50,800
are infatuated with the idea of a woman

2739
02:04:48,199 --> 02:04:52,880
president even if the woman is a monster

2740
02:04:50,800 --> 02:04:56,320
I mean we had a woman prime minister but

2741
02:04:52,880 --> 02:04:59,840
she was a monster so she was no gain uh

2742
02:04:56,320 --> 02:05:02,719
for the female gender in my view uh

2743
02:04:59,840 --> 02:05:04,400
neither would uh having Hillary Clinton

2744
02:05:02,719 --> 02:05:07,199
and Bill cuz of course he'll be moving

2745
02:05:04,400 --> 02:05:09,440
in with her having them uh running the

2746
02:05:07,199 --> 02:05:11,639
White House again uh I I just don't

2747
02:05:09,440 --> 02:05:14,440
accept that that is a good

2748
02:05:11,639 --> 02:05:15,440
thing no I don't I don't think it is a

2749
02:05:14,440 --> 02:05:17,280
good thing I don't even think they have

2750
02:05:15,440 --> 02:05:18,400
a particularly good track record and I

2751
02:05:17,280 --> 02:05:19,920
think that there's something really to

2752
02:05:18,400 --> 02:05:21,719
be said about the fact that if she does

2753
02:05:19,920 --> 02:05:23,639
become president we're going to have had

2754
02:05:21,719 --> 02:05:25,320
four of the last five presidents I think

2755
02:05:23,639 --> 02:05:27,239
it is we're coming from two families and

2756
02:05:25,320 --> 02:05:28,719
we're not talking about two exceptional

2757
02:05:27,239 --> 02:05:30,520
families and it really raises the

2758
02:05:28,719 --> 02:05:33,679
question in a country of so many

2759
02:05:30,520 --> 02:05:36,400
resources a huge population so much you

2760
02:05:33,679 --> 02:05:38,000
know fantastic universities so much

2761
02:05:36,400 --> 02:05:40,480
talent how can they come up with these

2762
02:05:38,000 --> 02:05:42,079
two awful people well in a way that you

2763
02:05:40,480 --> 02:05:45,440
know Edward that is The

2764
02:05:42,079 --> 02:05:48,599
$64,000 Question uh as they used to call

2765
02:05:45,440 --> 02:05:53,159
it and I've asked it of John lautier and

2766
02:05:48,599 --> 02:05:55,320
other uh American Sages over the years

2767
02:05:53,159 --> 02:05:59,440
uh and and and I just I honestly don't

2768
02:05:55,320 --> 02:06:02,760
get it the the United States with its

2769
02:05:59,440 --> 02:06:06,800
fantastic universities it's fantastic

2770
02:06:02,760 --> 02:06:10,159
science base it's fantastic level of uh

2771
02:06:06,800 --> 02:06:12,440
o of achievement it's can do spirit that

2772
02:06:10,159 --> 02:06:15,239
can send people to the moon and headed

2773
02:06:12,440 --> 02:06:17,760
towards Mars and so on they come up with

2774
02:06:15,239 --> 02:06:19,480
these two as the best uh Choice

2775
02:06:17,760 --> 02:06:22,040
available it doesn't make any sense to

2776
02:06:19,480 --> 02:06:23,599
me that well I think it's Lely Finance

2777
02:06:22,040 --> 02:06:25,280
isn't it you look at who can get who can

2778
02:06:23,599 --> 02:06:28,079
get themselves bankrolled who can get

2779
02:06:25,280 --> 02:06:30,320
themselves in front exposure who's got

2780
02:06:28,079 --> 02:06:31,599
that kind of money I don't think in this

2781
02:06:30,320 --> 02:06:32,760
country at least you can say if you

2782
02:06:31,599 --> 02:06:35,280
don't have a lot of money you can get

2783
02:06:32,760 --> 02:06:36,760
yourself into Parliament here it's sorry

2784
02:06:35,280 --> 02:06:39,079
in America it's a completely different

2785
02:06:36,760 --> 02:06:42,199
story yeah but I mean why why can't

2786
02:06:39,079 --> 02:06:44,960
better people than those two uh fund

2787
02:06:42,199 --> 02:06:47,079
raise and and get people behind them why

2788
02:06:44,960 --> 02:06:48,599
not because the Richer tend to have the

2789
02:06:47,079 --> 02:06:49,840
bigger connection so if you've got more

2790
02:06:48,599 --> 02:06:51,280
money you're likely to have better

2791
02:06:49,840 --> 02:06:53,119
connections and you're better likely to

2792
02:06:51,280 --> 02:06:55,159
get that sort of funding and I think in

2793
02:06:53,119 --> 02:06:57,079
the case of Clinton in particular she'll

2794
02:06:55,159 --> 02:07:00,320
take funding from anyone so they'll

2795
02:06:57,079 --> 02:07:02,400
happily sort of broaden their coffers uh

2796
02:07:00,320 --> 02:07:04,400
with money which comes from perhaps

2797
02:07:02,400 --> 02:07:05,760
sources which if it was in this country

2798
02:07:04,400 --> 02:07:07,719
would be totally

2799
02:07:05,760 --> 02:07:09,280
unacceptable yeah I'm with you on that

2800
02:07:07,719 --> 02:07:11,320
Edward it's been a pleasure talking to

2801
02:07:09,280 --> 02:07:14,119
you even if you normally disagree with

2802
02:07:11,320 --> 02:07:16,440
me thanks very much for calling the show

2803
02:07:14,119 --> 02:07:19,079
you've still got a few minutes to do so

2804
02:07:16,440 --> 02:07:21,920
uh if you haven't 0844

2805
02:07:19,079 --> 02:07:25,199
4991 pardon me 1,000 but let me go

2806
02:07:21,920 --> 02:07:28,000
through more of the tweets Etc uh Levi

2807
02:07:25,199 --> 02:07:30,119
Jordan says Jeremy was nothing short of

2808
02:07:28,000 --> 02:07:32,679
Sensational in Luke the part too have

2809
02:07:30,119 --> 02:07:35,199
you been giving him fashion tips George

2810
02:07:32,679 --> 02:07:38,360
my lips are sealed but I thought he

2811
02:07:35,199 --> 02:07:41,199
looked very smart Ian gold says I guess

2812
02:07:38,360 --> 02:07:44,400
she put DNC phone hacking allegations as

2813
02:07:41,199 --> 02:07:47,679
a top security issue which shows how

2814
02:07:44,400 --> 02:07:50,320
insane she is Michael John says how can

2815
02:07:47,679 --> 02:07:53,159
we distinguish between a real terrorist

2816
02:07:50,320 --> 02:07:56,880
attack and a false flag attack designed

2817
02:07:53,159 --> 02:07:59,360
to sway public opinion well uh Michael

2818
02:07:56,880 --> 02:08:02,679
if it looks like a duck walks like a

2819
02:07:59,360 --> 02:08:06,079
duck and quacks like a duck the chances

2820
02:08:02,679 --> 02:08:08,440
are it will be a duck Adam Eckles says I

2821
02:08:06,079 --> 02:08:11,119
think the United States will lose no

2822
02:08:08,440 --> 02:08:14,480
matter which candidate is chosen in my

2823
02:08:11,119 --> 02:08:18,400
opinion they are both awful I agree what

2824
02:08:14,480 --> 02:08:20,119
do you say 0844 499 1000 particularly if

2825
02:08:18,400 --> 02:08:24,719
you're a woman if you're a woman pick up

2826
02:08:20,119 --> 02:08:27,280
the phone now and dial me 0844 499 1000

2827
02:08:24,719 --> 02:08:31,639
cuz I'm determined that this will not be

2828
02:08:27,280 --> 02:08:33,199
the talk sport type of show two male

2829
02:08:31,639 --> 02:08:35,480
dominated although we have had I think

2830
02:08:33,199 --> 02:08:37,520
two women callers uh tonight that's

2831
02:08:35,480 --> 02:08:42,040
better than normal but it's still not

2832
02:08:37,520 --> 02:08:44,920
50/50 which is the least I

2833
02:08:42,040 --> 02:08:47,719
expect lessener comrades of the World

2834
02:08:44,920 --> 02:08:50,400
Unite the mother of all talk shows with

2835
02:08:47,719 --> 02:08:53,079
George Galloway on talk radio we'll get

2836
02:08:50,400 --> 02:08:57,000
you talking now the aforementioned Mark

2837
02:08:53,079 --> 02:08:59,719
Doran is getting silly now on uh Twitter

2838
02:08:57,000 --> 02:09:01,800
uh with reference to the points I made

2839
02:08:59,719 --> 02:09:04,000
about Churchill earlier he says gosh

2840
02:09:01,800 --> 02:09:05,559
Churchill did all that how did one man

2841
02:09:04,000 --> 02:09:09,880
shoot down all those bombers and

2842
02:09:05,559 --> 02:09:13,840
Fighters sink those UB boots Etc listen

2843
02:09:09,880 --> 02:09:16,320
Mark my point is if not for Churchill we

2844
02:09:13,840 --> 02:09:18,880
wouldn't have been shooting them down we

2845
02:09:16,320 --> 02:09:21,079
wouldn't have been fighting them if not

2846
02:09:18,880 --> 02:09:23,199
for Churchill we would have surrendered

2847
02:09:21,079 --> 02:09:25,880
to them and there would have been nobody

2848
02:09:23,199 --> 02:09:28,840
shooting them nobody sinking them you're

2849
02:09:25,880 --> 02:09:30,599
a young man so I'm going to give you the

2850
02:09:28,840 --> 02:09:33,840
uh the

2851
02:09:30,599 --> 02:09:36,679
exculpation that comes with actually not

2852
02:09:33,840 --> 02:09:39,119
knowing what you are talking about but

2853
02:09:36,679 --> 02:09:43,800
listen to somebody who does know and

2854
02:09:39,119 --> 02:09:47,840
here's what I know that the ruling Elite

2855
02:09:43,800 --> 02:09:51,679
in Britain wanted to surrender to

2856
02:09:47,840 --> 02:09:55,599
Hitler either because they secretly or

2857
02:09:51,679 --> 02:09:59,079
even openly agreed with him or because

2858
02:09:55,599 --> 02:10:02,400
they thought the cause was lost and if

2859
02:09:59,079 --> 02:10:06,079
it were not for the fact that Churchill

2860
02:10:02,400 --> 02:10:07,599
came to power in 1940 the war would have

2861
02:10:06,079 --> 02:10:11,320
been

2862
02:10:07,599 --> 02:10:16,040
over don't you understand that Mark and

2863
02:10:11,320 --> 02:10:16,880
if it had been over fascism Nazism would

2864
02:10:16,040 --> 02:10:20,480
have

2865
02:10:16,880 --> 02:10:24,719
triumphed and therefore everything else

2866
02:10:20,480 --> 02:10:26,920
would be a void would be a nothing think

2867
02:10:24,719 --> 02:10:31,400
of that a

2868
02:10:26,920 --> 02:10:34,599
nothing Maria's on in PE go ahead

2869
02:10:31,400 --> 02:10:37,880
Maria oh hello George I'm glad I made a

2870
02:10:34,599 --> 02:10:42,960
call for a woman caller and I've got one

2871
02:10:37,880 --> 02:10:47,920
thank you um um the reason why I'm call

2872
02:10:42,960 --> 02:10:51,840
calling you tonight is uh because I life

2873
02:10:47,920 --> 02:10:54,440
you maybe to raise awareness about was

2874
02:10:51,840 --> 02:10:59,079
happening to people who are

2875
02:10:54,440 --> 02:11:03,159
ill and applying for benefits and how

2876
02:10:59,079 --> 02:11:06,920
this health assessment advisory Services

2877
02:11:03,159 --> 02:11:09,119
is using private companies that Tre

2878
02:11:06,920 --> 02:11:14,280
people really app

2879
02:11:09,119 --> 02:11:17,360
poly I am the victim of that system and

2880
02:11:14,280 --> 02:11:19,760
there are a few private

2881
02:11:17,360 --> 02:11:23,679
companies so tell me what what happened

2882
02:11:19,760 --> 02:11:27,800
to you well what happened to me I was

2883
02:11:23,679 --> 02:11:31,920
um suffering from depression I I had

2884
02:11:27,800 --> 02:11:34,920
really bad flu spells every

2885
02:11:31,920 --> 02:11:36,480
winter I was and then I was diagnosed

2886
02:11:34,920 --> 02:11:40,520
with

2887
02:11:36,480 --> 02:11:44,559
post viral um fatigue syndrome

2888
02:11:40,520 --> 02:11:46,480
Etc um I went to one of these um

2889
02:11:44,559 --> 02:11:49,719
assessments

2890
02:11:46,480 --> 02:11:52,159
and I was given zero points apparently

2891
02:11:49,719 --> 02:11:54,559
it's a point of if you can lift your

2892
02:11:52,159 --> 02:11:57,559
left arm well can you lift your right

2893
02:11:54,559 --> 02:12:00,639
arm some there was a lady there I

2894
02:11:57,559 --> 02:12:04,079
thought it was a doctor I Leed are not

2895
02:12:00,639 --> 02:12:07,520
doctors um few months after I was

2896
02:12:04,079 --> 02:12:10,040
fighting for my life so they found you

2897
02:12:07,520 --> 02:12:12,360
they found you to be fit for work when

2898
02:12:10,040 --> 02:12:17,119
you were not fit to work this is part of

2899
02:12:12,360 --> 02:12:18,880
this Scandal the atos uh Scandal uh

2900
02:12:17,119 --> 02:12:21,360
which we we'll talk about on another

2901
02:12:18,880 --> 02:12:24,920
night but it's really good that you made

2902
02:12:21,360 --> 02:12:26,719
the point because it is a part of Tory

2903
02:12:24,920 --> 02:12:29,559
Britain that is

2904
02:12:26,719 --> 02:12:32,559
underexposed the only disaster is that

2905
02:12:29,559 --> 02:12:35,559
it was introduced not by the Tories but

2906
02:12:32,559 --> 02:12:38,159
by the last Labor government Maria

2907
02:12:35,559 --> 02:12:40,239
thanks for the call I'm pressing on only

2908
02:12:38,159 --> 02:12:42,559
because of the hour and I want to hear

2909
02:12:40,239 --> 02:12:46,079
Lizzie in Gloucester on grammar schools

2910
02:12:42,559 --> 02:12:47,599
go ahead Lizzy hello how are you I'm

2911
02:12:46,079 --> 02:12:50,400
good by the grace of God the better of

2912
02:12:47,599 --> 02:12:52,320
for hearing from you go ahead well I

2913
02:12:50,400 --> 02:12:55,040
just wanted to say I did tweet to you

2914
02:12:52,320 --> 02:12:57,920
earlier that I went to grammar school

2915
02:12:55,040 --> 02:13:00,559
and my brothers and sisters were all

2916
02:12:57,920 --> 02:13:03,760
slightly agust and and still treat me

2917
02:13:00,559 --> 02:13:05,559
with some contempt now because they

2918
02:13:03,760 --> 02:13:07,960
failed the 11 plus yeah because they

2919
02:13:05,559 --> 02:13:12,639
were deemed failures and you were deemed

2920
02:13:07,960 --> 02:13:15,440
a success at at 11 years of age that's

2921
02:13:12,639 --> 02:13:17,639
right but I felt that I was going that I

2922
02:13:15,440 --> 02:13:20,760
was going to somewhere I was

2923
02:13:17,639 --> 02:13:23,000
academically more advanced than others

2924
02:13:20,760 --> 02:13:25,840
so I felt that I was going to somewhere

2925
02:13:23,000 --> 02:13:27,719
that would feed that Academia and they

2926
02:13:25,840 --> 02:13:30,280
were going to somewhere that would feed

2927
02:13:27,719 --> 02:13:32,719
their abilities and skills in other

2928
02:13:30,280 --> 02:13:35,520
directions uh such as Engineering

2929
02:13:32,719 --> 02:13:38,360
Building farming that's the of course

2930
02:13:35,520 --> 02:13:42,320
that was true for some but not not for

2931
02:13:38,360 --> 02:13:44,480
the real Engineers the real Engineers I

2932
02:13:42,320 --> 02:13:46,520
mean my father left school at 14 he was

2933
02:13:44,480 --> 02:13:49,119
an engineering worker that didn't mean

2934
02:13:46,520 --> 02:13:51,480
he was an engineer no that's right

2935
02:13:49,119 --> 02:13:53,960
that's right and but I always felt quite

2936
02:13:51,480 --> 02:13:55,800
ostracized and and my family still take

2937
02:13:53,960 --> 02:13:58,599
the Mickey out of me

2938
02:13:55,800 --> 02:14:00,639
now I don't think it Advanced my life in

2939
02:13:58,599 --> 02:14:03,280
any way just made me talk a little bit

2940
02:14:00,639 --> 02:14:07,000
differently from them and I mean what do

2941
02:14:03,280 --> 02:14:09,840
you think is the reason why Maggie May

2942
02:14:07,000 --> 02:14:10,719
is uh is intent on taking us back to

2943
02:14:09,840 --> 02:14:13,840
that

2944
02:14:10,719 --> 02:14:16,000
sister um I should imagine so that she

2945
02:14:13,840 --> 02:14:19,880
can because we're running out of

2946
02:14:16,000 --> 02:14:24,040
brains um and we're not educating anyone

2947
02:14:19,880 --> 02:14:27,480
anymore unless well we are educating uh

2948
02:14:24,040 --> 02:14:30,360
privately quite well and in some State

2949
02:14:27,480 --> 02:14:32,960
Schools teachers have a huge ambition to

2950
02:14:30,360 --> 02:14:35,760
educate people and those teachers that

2951
02:14:32,960 --> 02:14:38,159
are good and want to educate people will

2952
02:14:35,760 --> 02:14:40,079
be successful in doing that wherever

2953
02:14:38,159 --> 02:14:44,079
they are in in whatever part of the

2954
02:14:40,079 --> 02:14:47,840
country they are but I think that um you

2955
02:14:44,079 --> 02:14:51,480
know it's getting so that it's like the

2956
02:14:47,840 --> 02:14:54,159
royal family you know they're in breed

2957
02:14:51,480 --> 02:14:57,000
well we better not go down that road too

2958
02:14:54,159 --> 02:14:59,840
far Lizzie thanks for that call I've got

2959
02:14:57,000 --> 02:15:01,960
to say though Liz I don't accept this

2960
02:14:59,840 --> 02:15:05,079
picture that has been painted tonight

2961
02:15:01,960 --> 02:15:07,800
that Britain is a stupid country if we

2962
02:15:05,079 --> 02:15:10,280
were a stupid country then we would not

2963
02:15:07,800 --> 02:15:12,520
have the many good things that we do

2964
02:15:10,280 --> 02:15:14,719
have even though they are increasingly

2965
02:15:12,520 --> 02:15:17,920
under threat we would not be the fifth

2966
02:15:14,719 --> 02:15:20,400
richest country in the world uh our uh

2967
02:15:17,920 --> 02:15:23,719
our uh stock market would not be at the

2968
02:15:20,400 --> 02:15:26,119
highest it been for very very many uh

2969
02:15:23,719 --> 02:15:29,760
years we have an

2970
02:15:26,119 --> 02:15:33,040
enormously huge number of skilled and

2971
02:15:29,760 --> 02:15:35,559
talented and hardworking people I don't

2972
02:15:33,040 --> 02:15:38,400
believe that we are stupid we could be

2973
02:15:35,559 --> 02:15:41,239
much more we could be much better we

2974
02:15:38,400 --> 02:15:43,559
could be really really world class if we

2975
02:15:41,239 --> 02:15:46,719
had a government that was ready to

2976
02:15:43,559 --> 02:15:49,800
invest in that this government proposal

2977
02:15:46,719 --> 02:15:52,159
takes us in entirely the wrong direction

2978
02:15:49,800 --> 02:15:55,079
that's my point Lizzie Gloucester thanks

2979
02:15:52,159 --> 02:15:58,520
very much for joining me Aiden Bradley

2980
02:15:55,079 --> 02:16:01,480
says what a choice for the Free World a

2981
02:15:58,520 --> 02:16:05,559
certifiable clown or a scheming

2982
02:16:01,480 --> 02:16:08,599
sociopath Bravo America very well put uh

2983
02:16:05,559 --> 02:16:10,760
Simon uh Brian

2984
02:16:08,599 --> 02:16:12,880
Ander says there's no shortage of

2985
02:16:10,760 --> 02:16:15,400
Brilliance from our schools the problem

2986
02:16:12,880 --> 02:16:18,840
is there is no shortage of Forgotten

2987
02:16:15,400 --> 02:16:20,760
ignored kids that's true Steven kry if

2988
02:16:18,840 --> 02:16:23,159
this Country carries on at this rate it

2989
02:16:20,760 --> 02:16:26,000
will will become more and more divided

2990
02:16:23,159 --> 02:16:28,719
Corbin must be voted in David Stevenson

2991
02:16:26,000 --> 02:16:30,320
sents a message which says George do you

2992
02:16:28,719 --> 02:16:33,200
think that with the suspension of the

2993
02:16:30,320 --> 02:16:35,920
Labour party constituencies that the

2994
02:16:33,200 --> 02:16:38,639
rightwing will attempt to get compliant

2995
02:16:35,920 --> 02:16:41,800
supporters to be sent I presume though

2996
02:16:38,639 --> 02:16:44,240
it's lost uh to conference I think it's

2997
02:16:41,800 --> 02:16:46,399
uh over and that's what I think of

2998
02:16:44,240 --> 02:16:50,639
course everybody's got to vote but I

2999
02:16:46,399 --> 02:16:54,000
think the Revolt is over uh Terry Clark

3000
02:16:50,639 --> 02:16:56,080
says we still sell arms to Saudi Arabia

3001
02:16:54,000 --> 02:16:58,479
uh who conducted its own investigation

3002
02:16:56,080 --> 02:17:00,559
into war crimes and found itself

3003
02:16:58,479 --> 02:17:03,399
innocent the British Parliament by the

3004
02:17:00,559 --> 02:17:06,280
way is about to uh have a select

3005
02:17:03,399 --> 02:17:10,639
committee report which recommends that

3006
02:17:06,280 --> 02:17:13,000
the government uh stop selling arms to

3007
02:17:10,639 --> 02:17:16,080
Saudi Arabia because those arms are

3008
02:17:13,000 --> 02:17:18,760
being used for internal repression and

3009
02:17:16,080 --> 02:17:21,359
external aggression there's a rear guard

3010
02:17:18,760 --> 02:17:25,559
action though being fought in inside the

3011
02:17:21,359 --> 02:17:30,120
select committee uh by people I can only

3012
02:17:25,559 --> 02:17:34,160
put it this way who are creatures of the

3013
02:17:30,120 --> 02:17:37,679
arms dealing industry and I refer in

3014
02:17:34,160 --> 02:17:42,280
particular to the so-called uh labor MP

3015
02:17:37,679 --> 02:17:44,679
John speller who is uh described as uh

3016
02:17:42,280 --> 02:17:48,200
someone who fights for the interests of

3017
02:17:44,679 --> 02:17:51,960
the weapons industry and chrisen blunt

3018
02:17:48,200 --> 02:17:54,040
the chairman of the select committee in

3019
02:17:51,960 --> 02:17:58,000
uh the first place both of these are

3020
02:17:54,040 --> 02:17:59,920
fighting a rear guard action in defense

3021
02:17:58,000 --> 02:18:04,439
of arms

3022
02:17:59,920 --> 02:18:07,240
dealers even when it is abundantly clear

3023
02:18:04,439 --> 02:18:11,399
that Saudi Arabia is one of the darkest

3024
02:18:07,240 --> 02:18:15,120
if not the darkest tyranny on the earth

3025
02:18:11,399 --> 02:18:18,240
that crucifies and I mean crucifies I

3026
02:18:15,120 --> 02:18:21,439
mean literally nails to a

3027
02:18:18,240 --> 02:18:24,559
cross those guilty of

3028
02:18:21,439 --> 02:18:28,200
asking for democracy in their country

3029
02:18:24,559 --> 02:18:30,840
Saudi Arabia is a country that has

3030
02:18:28,200 --> 02:18:34,080
decapitated in public on

3031
02:18:30,840 --> 02:18:38,319
television more people in

3032
02:18:34,080 --> 02:18:41,319
2016 than Isis Saudi Arabia is a country

3033
02:18:38,319 --> 02:18:44,679
where women are forbidden to drive motor

3034
02:18:41,319 --> 02:18:47,319
cars or to step foot on the pavement

3035
02:18:44,679 --> 02:18:50,040
outside their house without the

3036
02:18:47,319 --> 02:18:53,880
accompaniment of a male relative Saudi

3037
02:18:50,040 --> 02:18:56,599
Arabia is a country where you get thrown

3038
02:18:53,880 --> 02:19:00,359
into a dungeon and

3039
02:18:56,599 --> 02:19:05,840
tortured quite possibly to death for

3040
02:19:00,359 --> 02:19:08,519
entertaining ideas like Freedom Liberty

3041
02:19:05,840 --> 02:19:11,240
democracy Saudi Arabia is a country that

3042
02:19:08,519 --> 02:19:14,439
invades its neighbors it has invaded

3043
02:19:11,240 --> 02:19:17,920
Bahrain using British weapons it has

3044
02:19:14,439 --> 02:19:21,399
invaded Yemen using British weapons it

3045
02:19:17,920 --> 02:19:24,280
is sending British weapons to the Isis

3046
02:19:21,399 --> 02:19:28,319
and Al-Qaeda armies in

3047
02:19:24,280 --> 02:19:30,880
Syria now that's not a country that we

3048
02:19:28,319 --> 02:19:35,479
should be doing business with and I

3049
02:19:30,880 --> 02:19:37,439
don't care if it costs the arms dealers

3050
02:19:35,479 --> 02:19:40,519
an arm and a leg

3051
02:19:37,439 --> 02:19:43,840
metaphorically if we ban them from

3052
02:19:40,519 --> 02:19:46,519
selling weapons to these tyrants because

3053
02:19:43,840 --> 02:19:49,680
there are hundreds of thousands of

3054
02:19:46,519 --> 02:19:53,520
people have lost their arms and their

3055
02:19:49,680 --> 02:19:58,359
legs as a result of the policies of

3056
02:19:53,520 --> 02:20:00,600
these tyrannies so let me go on enrio

3057
02:19:58,359 --> 02:20:03,399
tortolano what a wonderful name says

3058
02:20:00,600 --> 02:20:06,560
Hillary Clinton is a threat to peace and

3059
02:20:03,399 --> 02:20:08,040
prosperity everywhere Malcolm Hurst says

3060
02:20:06,560 --> 02:20:10,720
of course the Americans armed the

3061
02:20:08,040 --> 02:20:13,200
Taliban to fight the Russians that went

3062
02:20:10,720 --> 02:20:15,720
well and Malcolm Finch says you're right

3063
02:20:13,200 --> 02:20:18,680
George treesa May is the iron Looney

3064
02:20:15,720 --> 02:20:21,319
will kids who fail the 11 plus be put to

3065
02:20:18,680 --> 02:20:24,840
work up chimneys ha

3066
02:20:21,319 --> 02:20:27,800
that's a very good point to end on it's

3067
02:20:24,840 --> 02:20:31,640
been marvelous uh for me I hope it was

3068
02:20:27,800 --> 02:20:35,479
also for you from now on for me she is

3069
02:20:31,640 --> 02:20:35,479
Maggie May